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From: melissa@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU (Melissa Silvestre)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: When is a Job Not Employment?
Message-ID: <1204@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU>
Date: Fri, 26-Sep-86 18:10:51 EDT
Article-I.D.: mit-tril.1204
Posted: Fri Sep 26 18:10:51 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 29-Sep-86 01:22:10 EDT
References: <1245@drutx.UUCP> <3384@umcp-cs.UUCP> <925@usl.UUCP> <1194@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU> <1035@gilbbs.UUCP>
Reply-To: melissa@trillian.UUCP (Melissa Silvestre)
Organization: MIT Project Athena
Lines: 75

In article <1035@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Thomas J Keller) writes:
>In article <1194@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU>, (Melissa Silvestre) writes:
>> In article <3384@umcp-cs.UUCP> mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP writes:
>> >
>> For example, the Fed pays those traffic controllers with money it
>> "stole" via taxes from the private sector. The private sector, had it
>> been allowed to keep that money, would have generated the same number
>> of jobs with it (and if the need (read: demand) is there, maybe even the
>> same jobs)
>
>   Oh?  What evidence can you cite to support this view?  In point of fact,
>   air traffic controllers, food and drug inspectors, etc., etc., were *NOT*
>   being hired by private businesses, who were benefitting through reduced
>   costs, even though they were supplying dangerous services and tainted 
>   food to the consumer.

You missed the point of my parenthetical. If they weren't hired,
then they weren't needed, or at least not needed enough for
consumers to be willing to pay for them, which is the
same thing when you come right down to it. The consumers through their
choice of consumption indicated that they were willing to take their
chances. Anyway, this is off the subject of job-creation.

>
>   Here we have another case of the 'libertarians' carefully ignoring the
>   facts of history which led up to the current system, in order to argue
>   that their theoretical utopia is better.  The dishonesty here is that
>   they continue to argue the point as if everything they say is an obvious
>   and foregone conclusion, and thet the facts clearly support their views.
>   The problem is that they have *NO* facts.

No the problem is that you insist on defining key concepts like "demand"
by arbitrary rules (like what YOU think should be provided) rather
than accepting that the only TRUE demand is the "put your money
where your mouth is" kind. Anything else is a load of useless talk
that won't help an economy run smoothly.

>
>   You 'libertarians' wish to change the way things are done in a drastic
>   and potentially dangerous fashion.  It is upon you to provide not merely
>   adequate evidence, but rather *OVERWHELMING* evidence that your system can
>   and will meet the needs of society.

We are far more radical than that! We don't wish to "meet the needs
of society". We wish to redefine how those needs are judged so that it's
economically impossible NOT to meet those needs.

Of course, such redefinitions are based on a completely different idea
of what it means to be a responsible adult than proponents of the
current paternalistic system have. And at this point, this discussion
should probably move to talk.politics.theory.

>
>   I repeat my view:  'libertarian' is a euphemism for 'self-centered, self-
>   satisfied, self-serving, inconsiderate, greedy lout."

Libertarian is a maltheism for "a responsible adult who wishes to make
others responsible adults as well."

I don't suppose you would care to define "lout" without using any of 
the above adjectives you already used, would you?

Some libertarians are undoubtably "self-centered...louts", but then
again, some liberals are hypocritical power-seeking louts who use
the poor downtrodden to gain wealth and acclaim.  But I'll give a liberal
the benefit of the doubt until I know him better. You, and UN-self-centered,
UN-self-serving, considerate UN-greedy non-lout should be able to
manage to do the same.

>tom keller					"She's alive, ALIVE!"
>{ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020


-- 
Melissa Silvestre (melissa@athena.mit.edu)