Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!think!mit-eddie!mit-trillian!martillo From: martillo@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU (Yakim Martillo) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: Frenchmen getting bombed, why them? Message-ID: <1205@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU> Date: Fri, 26-Sep-86 19:09:33 EDT Article-I.D.: mit-tril.1205 Posted: Fri Sep 26 19:09:33 1986 Date-Received: Mon, 29-Sep-86 01:22:27 EDT References: <7206@sri-spam.ARPA> <1063@ucbcad.BERKELEY.EDU> <15804@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <1034@gilbbs.UUCP> Reply-To: martillo@trillian.UUCP (Yakim Martillo) Organization: MIT Project Athena Lines: 99 In article <1034@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Thomas J Keller) writes: >In article <15804@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, tedrick@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes: >> >Those following events in the Middle East will recognize >> >that France's troubles stem from its perceived policies and role in >> >Lebanon, and are intimately connected to its colonial legacy (Many >> >in Lebanon blame France for its nurturing and institutionalizing the >> >sectarian political system which is the source of Lebanon's civil >> >strife.) If you want to look for an explanation of the targets, >> >frequency and intensity of terrorist acts, it helps to study the >> >local conditions under which terrorism sprouts. >> Hence, it is France's own fault that it is being bombed, and the >> solution is for France to be nicer to the Muslims. Right? > All sarcasm aside, in essence, yes, Mr. Tedrick. Your points in the > following paragraph are well taken, but the fact is that historically, > France *HAS* been deeply involved in colonial activities in the Mid-East. > This history pre-disposes people from the affected areas toward negative > views of the French. This paragraph indicates serious misreading of history. The French did not colonize a free people but rather supplanted imperialists who were if anything far worse than the French in their treatment of native subjects. Muslims object to the history of French colonization because Islamic doctrine considers Islamic subjugation of non-Muslims the natural order and non-Muslim domination of Muslims a sin against God. Muslims do not object to imperialism or colonialism per se. They only object because Muslims were not conquering Westerners. In fact, the French early in their subjugation of these regions did commit some crimes but only against the local non-Muslim population (e.g. encouraged Muslims to commit a pogrom against Syrian Jews by means of blood-libel). Later the French realized that Muslims were basically intractable in refusing to deal with non-Muslims on terms of mutual respect and equality. Consequently, they made use of the local Christian population as agents. However, to use the Christians as agents, they had to force the Muslims to treat Christians as equals rather than dhimmis (slaves). This crime caused Muslim enmity against the French (in Lebanon -- the Maghreb was slightly different). > Whether or not the French are legitimately holding any given terrorist > prisoner, it remains true that they are holding such prisoners, and it > would appear that the recent attacks in France are directly related to > this. I do not justify nor condone the attacks, I merely observe that > one *POSSIBLE* way for France to insure the cessation of this particular > string of attacks is to release the prisoner in question (I sincerely > hope they do *NOT* do so!). > Mr. Hijab's comments have been taken somewhat out of context by you. > I believe that in a paragraph preceding the one you have included in > your posting, he pointed out that the current wave of terrorist attacks > was not related to the French refusal of airspace prvileges during the > Reagan attack on Libya. This was in response to a posting by someone > else suggesting this was the case. Mr. Hijab's posting was calm, > reasonable and to the point. Whether you agree with the further analysis > of Mid-East politics he made or not doesn't invalidate his right to > make them or disseminate them. > I might also point out that reading antiquated textbooks is not really > a very reasonable approach to dealing with current political problems. Yes, I might suggest you learn something about true Islamic culture and society and stopped reading 60s style leftists apologies for howling Islamic savagery. >> I seriously advise you to read Clausewitz, Lidell-Hart, or >> J.F.C. Fuller if you believe that. War is war whatever excuses >> you make for one side and whatever bad things you accuse the >> other side of. If the Muslims aren't smart enough to stop waging >> war against Europe and the United States they will provoke more >> and more violent reaction until one side or the other gives in. >> I guarantee you it won't be the west, although the fight may >> be extremely destructive. Study some history and theory for a >> change instead of all the propaganda BS that is floating around. > > Try studying some for yourself. The peoples of the Mid-East, many of them, > were tortured and degraded for decades (even centuries) by white European > peoples. To disregard this fact as a factor in the current political > situation there is foolish and irresponsible. European domination existed in most of the Maghreb, Mashreq, Yaman, and Levant for hardly more than a century. If anything torture and barbarism decreased during European domination and has tended to increase to pre-European standards ever since the Europeans. It is equally foolish and irresponsible to ignore the basic nature of Islamic society and culture and the basic requirements of Islam in Muslim/non-Muslim interaction. I do not want to absolve France of responsibility for the insanity in the Middle East but the Muslim inhabitants of the Middle East must begin to accept most of the blame themselves because they are there and can do something about it. In a similar situation the Chinese looked into themselves and were willing to consider a critique of their own society. The Chinese perhaps mistakenly even considered totalistic rejectionism of the whole corpus of Chinese civilization. In the Muslim countries hardly anyone considers the possibility that some of the blame lies with Muslims themselves and their culture and those who do tend to get their brains blown out.