Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!yale!decvax!cca!mirror!misc!inmet!nrh From: nrh@inmet.UUCP Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: Re: Re: Commission on Pornograp Message-ID: <117200097@inmet> Date: Sat, 20-Sep-86 12:40:00 EDT Article-I.D.: inmet.117200097 Posted: Sat Sep 20 12:40:00 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 11-Oct-86 07:21:30 EDT References: <1544@mtx5a.UUCP> Lines: 98 Nf-ID: #R:mtx5a.UUCP:-154400:inmet:117200097:000:4642 Nf-From: inmet.UUCP!nrh Sep 20 12:40:00 1986 As the pseudo-reasonable arguments for censorship are blown away on the grounds of irrelevance, silliness, and incorrectness, we begin to see the emotional ones: >/* Written 12:06 am Sep 20, 1986 by mat@mtx5a.UUCP in inmet:talk.pol.misc */ >/* ---------- "Re: Re: Re: Commission on Pornograp" ---------- */ >> >> AH! Now we have gotten to the *crux* of the matter: >> sexual arousal >> >> ... >> Let's ban *anything* which may lead people to that awful, disgusting >> *sinful* pleasure of *SEXUAL AROUSAL*!! >>... >> Amidst all the noise about rape, violence, etc, you have finally stated >> the true desire of the Meese Commission and the right-wing fascists >> trying to take away our rights to private pleasures. Their desire > >Or, rather, the question of whether turning sexual arousal into a commodity >to be traded at the price the market will bear, and provided with all the >moral integrity of Big Business, is causing harm, doing good, or being >indifferent. And here we have it folks: Mark doesn't feel the rest of us will make appropriate use of erotica, so he proposes to ban it. Heaven forfend that people be allowed to trade this sacred stuff! Surely fire from heaven will fall upon those who permit porn to be BOUGHT AND SOLD as if it were just ANY OLD depiction of human experience. Of course, Mark is blurring the line between erotic materials that can be bought and sold in the marketplace, and erotic FEELINGS, which CANNOT be bought and sold. He's also begging the question of whether the materiels should be banned. If permitted, the marketplace is probably the least offensive place to provide them (unless Mark is suggesting that the GOVERNMENT provide them?) Mark is also begging the question: IF pornography is somehow too much to handle, THEN its commercial exploitation is an amplification of that evil. BUT I suspect (and Mark will correct me) that pornography privately made and distributed on a non-profit basis would STILL be illegal if Mark had his way. (And if not, Mark, why not?) On the other hand, as the Frenchman said when he was accused of making more Frenchmen: "But what is wrong with that?". Establish pornography as evil, and you make a case for banning it. But if you FAIL to establish this case, you don't have grounds for arguing that trading it is THEREBY evil. Of course, if you're simply trying to instill the notion that the commercialization of sexual materials is somehow evil, then you need stronger arguments than the silly one that it's unsavory: lots of things are unsavory, but they violate nobody's rights and are therefore outside the proper range of a ban. >How much is it worth to you to have a camera in your bedroom so we can film >what you do and publish it? Ten thousand, hundred thousand? How about a >million? > >Oops, you're about to be undersold by a couple of starving kids in the ghetto >who'll do it for a hundred-and-fifty. And here we have the "if pornography is legal -- then children will do it!" distortion. A couple of starving kids in the ghetto are NOT going to go into the porn business -- the PRODUCER of such a film would certainly be liable to penalties (under current law) for doing this, so making pornography illegal won't help -- his actions are already illegal. Suppose, though, you meant "grown-up kids": in that case I see nothing evil in permitting them to make a living in the easiest way they can find. I may find it unsavory, but then I'd find sewer-cleaning unsavory also. >Sexual arousal is a means by which people may be manipulated. A woman >known as CYNTHIA got intelligence information that turned WWII out of >very loyal officers of Vichy France: > > I discovered how easy it was to make highly trained, > professionally close-mouted patriots give away secrets > in bed, and I swore to close my ears to everything of > value on our side. The greatest joy is a man and woman > together. Making love allows a discharge of all those > private innermost thoughts that have accumulated. In this > sudden flood, everything is released. Everything. I just > never dared to learn our own secrets ... > > CYNTHIA, later Elizabeth Amy > Thorpe (real name still secret) > quoted in > ``A Man Called INTREPID''. > >Hardly the stuff we want traded on the Mercantile Exchange ... Anecdotal and unscientific evidence (again!). It'd be interesting to see what you'd do with REAL evidence. By the way, I suspect that most porn is used by solitary men. Are they expected to pour out their innermost secrets to "love dolls"? And if they do, where's the harm?