Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!yale!husc6!uwvax!rutgers!caip!think!mit-eddie!mit-trillian!martillo From: martillo@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU (Yakim Martillo) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: South Africa Terrorizes Southern Africa Message-ID: <1255@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU> Date: Fri, 10-Oct-86 00:26:27 EDT Article-I.D.: mit-tril.1255 Posted: Fri Oct 10 00:26:27 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 16-Oct-86 06:47:49 EDT References: <8556@duke.duke.UUCP> <117200040@inmet> Reply-To: martillo@trillian.UUCP (Yakim Martillo) Organization: MIT Project Athena Lines: 96 Keywords: Israel and South Africa In article <16071@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> ashcroft@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Dazed and Confused) writes: >In article <1244@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU> martillo@trillian.UUCP (Yakim Martillo) writes: >>The basic truth is Islam is wrong and unjust. When Muslims fix Islam >>perhaps peace might be negotiable. > >***********PHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW*********************** >Christ in a cockpit.... what an ignorant slut - Islam is wrong and unjust eh ? >I don't know what religion you may be Mr Martillo but if you are Jewish or >Christian (or pretty much anything else) you are a nasty encrusted pot calling >a kettle black. If you are an Atheist then you know that all religions are >in a number of ways wrong and unjust and you are picking on one of them to >advance your own agenda. Terrorism is no more a characteristic of Islam >than it is of Christianity and Judaism. Witness if you will the sectarian >violence in Northern Ireland and remember a particularly nasty bunch of >terrorists led by one Menachem Begin. All religions almost by definition >("we are the true believers") breed the contempt for nonbelievers that >can result in believing that violence against the nonbelievers is OK. >Get a grip on reality. I would suggest that you learn something about Islam. Only a selected class of non-Muslims may live in a Muslim country and they are permitted to live in a permanently degraded and humiliated condition only if they accept dhimma that is only if they pay protection money. I know only one organization which engages in similar practices -- the mafia. A religion organized along mafiosi principles is simply unacceptable. No important modern Christian religious leader calls for the humiliation and degradation of non-Christians living in Christian countries. There are only a couple of fringe groups (I think in Brazil and in France which call for such things). However, I would have to work hard to find even an insignificant Muslim leader who does not demand that non-Muslims living among Muslims should be humiliated and degraded. I have heard the Imam of Washington ambiguously call for such humiliation and degradation in English while explicitly demanding such behavior in Arabic. Wallace Muhammad (who is not even an insignificant Muslim thinker as far as I can tell) has waffled on the issue. No wonder the rallying cry of Christians in Lebanon is, "We will not become dhimmis," and Christian leaders in Egypt are in fear of being returned to unreconstructed dhimma. In treatment of women Islam is totally unacceptable and probably should be considered criminal. The `ulema is basically divided into two camps of the excision of the clitoris. One camp considers the act commendable. The other considers it obligatory. Saying all religions are wrong bad and therefore I shouldn't pick on Islam is either symptomatic of Western leftist intellectual myopic inability to make ethical distinctions or pure intellectual dishonesty. All religions may be untrue but some religions may be worse than others. A religion which requires cannibalism would be unacceptable today. The Thugees were unacceptable to the British. Today's Thugees are the Islamic `Ulama. As for Menahem Begin, he was not a terrorist. He ran the `Irgun like the French underground and all officials of the British occupation were legitimate target because British behavior during WWII generally aided and abetted the extermination of the Jewish community even while the British fought the Germans. The vast majority of `Irgun action was directed at the British military. The Labor Zionists liked to call the Revisionists terrorists but that was only a piece of political propaganda because the Revisionists opposed Labor socialist ideology. The main terrorist act the Irgun was supposed to have committed is blowing up the King David Hotel but the British had established the King David hotel as the military headquarters and had thereby rendered the Hotel a legitimate military target. The British should be blamed for establishing a major military target in a civilian area. As for me, I am of southern Libyan Jewish background. My family was forced to grovel as dhimmis for over a thousand years. All the members of my family either were born in Muslim countries, grew up in Muslim countries or have spent long periods in Muslim countries. All the major Muslim languages are spoken in my family including `Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Turkish, Berber, Malaysian, and Chinese (though I must admit not the Hui dialect). As for Ashcroft he has already proven his antiSemitism in previous articles. This article shows his basic ignorant Western chauvinism. Very few religions have incorporated contempt for non-believers into fundamental principles. Christianity and Islam may be unique. Neither Judaism, nor Hinduism, nor Buddhism, nor Daoism, nor Greek paganism nor Roman paganism has doctrines requiring the humiliation of non-Believers. Since Ashcroft as an ignoramus only knows a little about Christianity, he assumes that all other belief systems are similar.