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From: mikes@tekecs.UUCP (Michael Sellers)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.origins
Subject: Now wait a minute... (was Re: Who can know?)
Message-ID: <7657@tekecs.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 19-Sep-86 16:04:24 EDT
Article-I.D.: tekecs.7657
Posted: Fri Sep 19 16:04:24 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 23-Sep-86 01:26:29 EDT
References: <15222@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <988@hoptoad.uucp> <8443@duke.duke.UUCP> <1036@g.cs.cmu.edu> <198@BMS-AT.UUCP> <579@dg_rtp.UUCP>
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR
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Xref: linus talk.religion.misc:160 talk.origins:66

[...]
>> The knowledge *we* can have is certainly limited.  Unless you assume
>> that only beings with our physical limitations are observing, this
>> does not mean there are no observers.
>
>You mistake what recent expirements have shown.  They have shown that,
>not only can *we* never know, but *noone* can ever know, because the
>information *ISN'T* *THERE* *TO* *BE* *KNOWN*.
>
> Wayne Throop      <the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!dg_rtp!throopw

I'd really like to see a cogent defense of this last statement (I don't think 
it can be done).  How can we say that certain information about quantum
mechanical systems, for a given observer with perceptual abilities far 
different (better) than our own, is simply unknowable.  It is very different
to say that we do not or cannot observe something than to say that it
cannot be observed, period.  Remember not to restrict the perceptual system
of the observer to a certain level of resolution or even by what we consider
to be fundamental "laws" (e.g., that the observer must follow a linear time-
stream and cannot observe two events at precisely the same instant).  If you
do not restrict the observer in ways similar to how we are restricted, then
even quantum physical fundamentals such as the probabilistic motions of 
particles that gives rise to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle go away,
as it would, in fact, be possible for an observer to apprehend both the 
position and the velocity of the particle at the same instant in time.

-- 

		Mike Sellers
	UUCP: {...your spinal column here...}!tektronix!tekecs!mikes


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