Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2.fluke 6/7/85; site cal-asd.fluke.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!fluke!ptl From: ptl@fluke.UUCP (Mike Andrews) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: Salvation question Message-ID: <622@cal-asd.fluke.UUCP> Date: Mon, 22-Sep-86 16:19:45 EDT Article-I.D.: cal-asd.622 Posted: Mon Sep 22 16:19:45 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 24-Sep-86 00:16:39 EDT References: <1018@tekcrl.UUCP> Reply-To: ptl@cal-asd.UUCP (Mike Andrews) Distribution: na Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA Lines: 66 Hi, In article <1018@tekcrl.UUCP> daveh@tekcrl.UUCP (Dave Hatcher) writes: > Here is my question; >> 1. What is the saving action? >... This is Mike Andrews response to the problem: >> the saving action is Jesus Christ. Jesus said "I am the way the >>truth and the life *no one* goes to the Father execpt by me" Jesus was the >>supreme showing of how much God loves us. "But God demonstrates His own >>love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Rom.5:8) I heartily agree with the statements, though I didn't write them. I can't find who did, either. > But I still have a problem with the final solution to the problem! > > Something isn't covered! >... What I'm trying to get to, is the point where a Christian > experiences salvation. Or at least begins to anyway. > To beleive that Jesus died for our sins, and to experience > the saving action, to me, is working on two different levels. >... Dave Hatcher Believing and experiencing don't have to occur together; either one can occur separately from the other, and usually does. At least in my life and the lives of many other Christians I know. Look at the number of people who didn't believe, but had such a powerful experience of God's love that they decided to believe in Him and His promises. The flip side are the people who are taught to believe, say from infancy, then they later have an experience of the reality of a loving God which builds up their belief. Faith is a Catch-22: You have to believe you have it so you can have it. Asking for the Gift of Faith, then waiting for lightening bolts to prove you've `got it', will mean a very long wait. I'm speaking from personal experience. Scripture tells us how once when Jesus visited His home town, even He couldn't do any major miracles simply because the people didn't believe in Him. And He is God. God couldn't work in peoples lives because of their own unbelief. There's the catch - you choose to believe God is true to His word, to love and forgive you, then you live your life believing He does. Now He can love you and forgive you, bring changes into your life, helping you live life to the fullest, as scripture says. Funny thing about all this is that once you choose to believe in a loving God, you eventually find out He had called to you long before you called to Him --- why do you think you have the desire to believe in Him? Make your personal choice, right now, to believe in a loving God, Who chose you before you were even born to receive His love and promises. Then find other Christians, who like yourself are trying to better accept a love you can never fully understand. Get Baptised if you haven't been already - there is a Divine power God places in the simple cleansing act of pouring water over your forehead, or complete emersion. Different churches, different methods, but the same God and the same Divine power involved. All God's richest blessings, keep in touch, Mike Andrews P.S. :-) Believe it or not, some Roman Catholic churches now use complete emersion; it is up to the local pastor. Good thing I was Baptised as an infant by pouring water over my forehead, I'd drown the other way.