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From: credmond@watmath.UUCP (Chris Redmond)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rowing through the fog
Message-ID: <3350@watmath.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 24-Sep-86 13:09:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: watmath.3350
Posted: Wed Sep 24 13:09:56 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 29-Sep-86 00:45:01 EDT
References: <1308@drutx.UUCP> <711@nrcvax.UUCP> <1309@trwrb.UUCP>
Reply-To: credmond@watmath.UUCP (Chris Redmond)
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 31

In article <1309@trwrb.UUCP> gibson@trwrb.UUCP (Gregory S. Gibson) writes:
>
>Not true.  Jesus Christ died on the cross because he didn't have the power
>to prevent the Romans from crucifing him.  This "sacrafice" ideal was
>created to "cover" up his dishonable death.  The "resurrection" theory is
>part of the same "cover" up.  
>
>Of course, I don't expect you to believe me.  Sacrifice to open the "Gates
>of Heaven" or for the sins of others makes little sense.  Every individual
>must answer for his/hers own sins.  I can not answer for my brother's sins.
>Why would God NEED/require such a sacrifice?
>

I think Greg meant this to be a contradiction of Christian beliefs.
However, I don't think it has to be, because "vicarious atonement" (the
technical name for the doctrine Greg is denouncing) is, indeed, rather
odd, and not something all Christians wish to believe in.

It seems to me to make more sense -- and to be entirely compatible
with what *I* consider Christian belief -- to say that Jesus died on
the cross because that was the only death that was compatible with
his life, human nature being what it is.  You show up among Romans,
Jews, Americans, Canadians and other such imperfect beings, and you
lead a simple, moral and unselfish life, and you can be absolutely
sure you'll end up lynched.

He didn't have the power to prevent it, says Greg.  No, and he didn't
have the wish to do so either.  Suffering seems to be logically necessary
as part of a good life, and that's how Jesus conducted himself as a
model for the rest of us -- none of whom have been able to lead up
to it so far, although a few have come close.