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From: cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel Rives)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Tim Maroney's questions!! (Why do people belive in God)
Message-ID: <2296@gitpyr.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 26-Sep-86 13:01:25 EDT
Article-I.D.: gitpyr.2296
Posted: Fri Sep 26 13:01:25 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 29-Sep-86 01:18:52 EDT
References: <2573@watdcsu.UUCP> <2759@rsch.WISC.EDU>
Reply-To: cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel Rives)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia
Lines: 59
Xref: linus talk.religion.misc:272 net.religion.christian:4746

In article <2759@rsch.WISC.EDU> planting@rsch.WISC.EDU (W. Harry Plantinga) writes:
>
>In the same way, most (many?) Christians believe in God because 
>they experience Him.  For many Christians, the experience is just as
>compelling as the appearance of another person nearby.  It's not a
>mental defect that causes the person to believe in God, it's a correct
>and natural response to experience.  Many Christians *don't have a
>choice* about believing in God any more than a person has a choice
>about believing there's another person in the room when he sees him.
>
I am not convinced that most (or many) people who profess to be Christian
believe in god out of personal experience. Many people, from many walks
of life, in many different countries throughout time have referred to
a "spiritual" experience. Some people recognize this experience as evidence
in some external deity (not necissarily a Christian deity either). Others,
see it as evidence of their own oneness with the universe - their own
potential godhead, so to speak. Those two groups, by no means, define the
set of reactions to this experience. Such an experience as you are referring
to is - as are all experiences - subject to various filters in our minds.
If you are brought up as a Hindu, you might filter the experience into a form
that is compatible with Hindu scripture. If you are a Toaist, you might 
perceive this experience as being one with the flow of Tao. If you are
a Christian, the layers of indoctrination and cultural background might
flavor the experience so that it conforms to the concept of god.

Two people, perceiving the same object, will not necissarily describe the
object in similar terms afterwards. This happens quite often in the mundane
world. How much more so must it occur when we experience something so 
intangible as the experience you refer to. A dozen persons sitting in a circle
around some central object will all perceive a slightly different aspect of
the whole object. None of them has the perspective to perceive the object in
it's entirety and so, some may disagree completely as to the objects appearance.
What's more, if this object were to be something that each person in the
circle sought to obtain, then it would not be possible for all of them to
achieve the goal by going along the same path or the same direction. Each
person in that circle would have to make a unique path to the object. 

>I sometimes even wonder if *everyone* experiences God, and either
>accepts him or rejects him.  It would certainly explain the venom I
>see in this newsgroup . . .
>
I have had such experiences often in my life. When I was younger and didn't 
know any better, I attributed them to Jesus Christ's influence in my life.
Later, when I was rebelling aginst the religion which was forced down my
throat as a youth, I preferred to perceive these experiences as Magic in the
universe. Now, I prefer not to attach a label to the experience. For, any
such label will only limit the experience. 


-- 
                                               Joel Rives
                                               gatech!gitpyr!cc100jr

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              There is no place to seek the mind; 
                It is like the footprints of the birds in the sky.

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