Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!ucbcad!nike!think!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Why believe in religion? Message-ID: <1185@cybvax0.UUCP> Date: Wed, 8-Oct-86 12:59:15 EDT Article-I.D.: cybvax0.1185 Posted: Wed Oct 8 12:59:15 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Oct-86 20:00:44 EDT References: <1174@cybvax0.UUCP> <677@cal-asd.fluke.UUCP> Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Distribution: na Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA Lines: 70 Xref: ucbvax talk.religion.misc:484 net.religion.christian:556 In article <677@cal-asd.fluke.UUCP> ptl@cal-asd.UUCP (Mike Andrews) writes: > In article <1174@cybvax0.UUCP> mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) writes: > >...Having a tool doesn't guarantee that the tool is good for the claimed use. > >By your analogy, every religion is a tool. And I strongly doubt that you > >would conceed the others are all good for their claimed uses. > > Every religion is a tool. Not all are established by God, and even of the > ones that are, not all the tools are always used correctly. Yes, but what happens when your tool features the secret miracle ingredient "fraudulin"? You attempt to blame failures of the tools on misuse: my point is that claims of the retailers are fraudulent. > [regarding why Mike Huybensz would believe God has no interest in him] > >I don't believe that at all. It never comes up because I don't believe in > >gods. ... > > Why do you fight so hard against the God you don't believe exists, and > specifically get involved in net.religion.christian to spend time and > energy to attack those who do choose to believe in Him? I expend no effort against non-existent gods: my arguments are directed to very real people (well, maybe not so real.... :-) These people claim that because of an invisible being (that only they can see and hear), they have more authority than I do. They want to enact laws (such as blasphemy laws, abortion laws, etc.) that are designed to enforce their whims. It is politically important for me to oppose this nonsense. I certainly don't do it out of some idiotic need to tell a god that it doesn't exist. > Will you move > your discussions over to mod.religion.christain, or do you think expressing > your sincere doubts and concerns will be not allowed there? Give it a try. To date I've only seen one posting in m.r.c: and it should have been in talk.politics. Personally, I dislike moderated groups. I think they are inconvenient. However, I will definitely try posting to them if I see something that I think needs a rebuttal that a Christian could make. > I have a real hard time believing in God sometimes, more often than I wish. If you need help in discarding your superstitions, let me know. > There are times I get more than just angry with Him, tired of trying to > act Christian when it doesn't get me anywhere. It's at these times I learn > more about myself - if I get tired of acting like a Christian because I don't > get anything out of it, then why do I act like a Christian in the first place? > So others will be impressed with the me they are shown - strong, faithfilled > Christian ... etc, or so God will be pleased to see me loving those same > others for Him? Probably force of habit. It's hard to rethink what to do in ordinary circumstances when you have been long trained to do particular things. Alternative strategies don't just pop into your head, and judgement systems based on experience require mistakes to be made to gain experience. I think it's pathetic that you try to use your own acquired habits (that you'd probably not find easy to change even if you tried) as a prop for your beliefs. -- "Do you want real TRUTH in capital letters? Then search yourself for why you believe the things you do. Don't be afraid to analyze why your religion gives you the high it does. Answer yourself this question: Is TRUTH important enough for me to give up my religion if that is required? Until you answer yes to this you are not being honest with yourself." Dave Trissel -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh