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From: marty@ism780c.UUCP (Marty Smith)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Reply to Marty Smith
Message-ID: <3697@ism780c.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 30-Sep-86 15:18:27 EDT
Article-I.D.: ism780c.3697
Posted: Tue Sep 30 15:18:27 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 11-Oct-86 07:34:16 EDT
References: <5507@decwrl.DEC.COM> <3664@ism780c.UUCP> <2590@watdcsu.UUCP>
Reply-To: marty@ism780c.UUCP (Marty Smith)
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Santa Monica, CA
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Xref: linus net.religion.christian:4801 talk.religion.misc:345

Organization:

In article <2590@watdcsu.UUCP> magore@watdcsu.UUCP (M.A.Gore - ICR) writes:
>
>	It would seem that *your* idea of the word DAMN - Damnation
>is not a curse. Well this is an English problem as well.

Now we're getting somewhere.  I don't know where yet, but it seems a person's
attitude is important when cursing.

>	The place or the state of damnation is that of the final loss
>of soul or destruction. So when you say 'God Damn' you instruct 
>God to Damn whatever your talking about.

I never instruct God to do anything.  I never even ask God to do anything.
God is omniscient and omnipotent.  I have no power over God.  I cannot
instruct God.  I am God's creation.  When I say "God damn it," I express
how I feel: very negative.  If, on the other hand, I believe that I can
presume the prerogatives of God and I say "God damn it," then I am guilty
of using God's name in vain.  Your claim that this is true all of the time
is based on your incorrectly presuming my prerogatives.  That is, you presume
to know my attitude.  Or, you presume that I must have your attitude in order
to be a Christian.  You have judged me in a way reserved for God alone.

>To use the word by
>definition is to Swear -and you are telling God to Damn something which
>isn't *our* right. Even though *you* don't mean anything bad -if I get
>the drift.

This is part of what I mean, and you continue to say that it is wrong in
spite of my assurances.  This can only mean that the words themselves are
what you are afraid of.  This is idolatry on your part.

>You knew or now know *what* you are saying. To 'DAMN'
>something is to Judge it because the *word* damnation from it's
>Greek word (See Unger's Bible dictionary or a Bible with a concordance)
>*is* the place of Judgement and destruction. But beyond that *no place*
>in the Bible is using the word Damn or a Curse *like* it given in
>the Light you would like to use it (harmless in your eye's).

I'm sure you are correct about damn in the Bible.  God knows what I am
thinking when I use the curse, because God is omniscient.  And because only
God is omnipotent, my use of the curse *is* harmless unless God chooses
to do someting about it.

>If something happens bad we should have sorrow! Look at Job what was
>his example? He had enough to be sad about but his Joy was in God.
>
>	Show examples where a Curse was worship and the word
>was 'DAMN' in the Bible. Or try to use Scripture to give light
>to your ideas.

I admit that I cannot do what you ask.  Christiandom has not allowed the
Bible to change over the centuries.  Thus, the Bible has lost meaning
rather than gained.

And please forgive me; I sense that I have offended you with my arguments.
That is not my purpose.

>This might clear things up  -Remember that 'DAMN' is
>the place of Judgement/destruction. Then follow this thought:
>
>	Deuteronomy 1:17
>		" Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and
>	great alike. Do not be afraid of any man, for 
>		judgement belongs to God."
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Clearly, this does not say that I should not judge, only that my judgements
cannot send any man to heaven or to hell.

>	Isiah 58:11 (NIV) "...and not doing as you please or speaking
>	*idle* [my emph.] words, then you will find your joy in the Lord..."
>
>	So what are 'idle' words? Try words said *without* thought - as if to
>make idle 'damnation' *because you said you DID NOT mean it* - well
>that is idle. You can say that you mean good by it *but* you thus
>make the word 'idle' the further from it's intent you make it....

My curses are definitely not idle.  They relieve a measure of internal
suffering.  No wonder then that I associate them with prayer.  How is this
relief obtained?  Is it not from God?  I believe it is not from Satan.  I
believe it is from God.

>	Well perhaps I understand where you were coming from now. But
>still the point stands. You might now understand why people quoted
>the various verses to you...

I do understand, and appreciate your ideas.

>	Keep looking. I trust God will make things clear as you search
>with your heart....

Thank you.
					Marty Smith