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From: tcmaint@tektools.UUCP (Kim Vandemore)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Reply to Marty Smith
Message-ID: <1628@tektools.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 1-Oct-86 06:27:37 EDT
Article-I.D.: tektools.1628
Posted: Wed Oct  1 06:27:37 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 11-Oct-86 08:04:28 EDT
References: <5507@decwrl.DEC.COM> <1609@tektools.UUCP> <2594@watdcsu.UUCP>
Reply-To: tcmaint@tektools.UUCP (Kim Vandemore)
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
Lines: 60

>You state:
>
>= Actually, Paul was a self-centered, woman hating religious politician who
>= jumped onto the Christian bandwagon because he could not advance as a
>= Pharisee (even they hated tax collectors.)  Consequently, Paul gained
>= religious power in the same way Hitler gained political power.  They were
>= much alike.
>= Just think, Christianity owes its' entire philosophy to this one man
>= (well, at least the most of it.)  So, Christianity, itself, is a myth
>= and definitely pagan.  Superstition, lies and cant its' only redeeming
>= qualities.  God is forgotten and replaced by ritual heresy.  Jesus
>= would shutter at the idolatry.
>	^^^^^^^^
Mike:  Paul's political struggle to keep the various churches together is
well documented in the bible.  His insistence on the the use of his teach-
ings, as opposed to the more 'jewish' teachings of Peter's, are also much
in evidence in the new testement.  Paul's attitude towards sexual relations
evolved into a celibate priesthood which proscribed certain foods in contra-
vention to Paul's specific remarks.

That he became the center and driving force of the Christian movement cannot
be denied.  Most of the new testement is evidence of his driving will and
incidence on the 'right' of his interpretation of 'what' Jesus said, did, and
meant by what he said.  Faith, then, relieves others of any doubts concerning
the right or wrong of what Paul espoused.  They can blindly quote him, as
you did for my benefit.  By the way, an heresy; using the bible in an effort
to cast me into a sinister position, a veritable anti-christ.  A religious
attack which reminds me of Paul's attacks on the backsliders and revisionists.

There is only one God, not three.  There is not three-in-one; just ONE.  Jesus
was his son, as are we all.  We can petition, and become closer through prayer
and meditation on the sayings of Jesus, not Paul's.  Although Jesus upheld
the prophets, Paul denied them by changing the food restrictions, sacrifice 
and rituals by which Jesus lived.  Jesus had a perfect message for mankind and
Paul, in hubris, interpreted it into his own light.  For him, ok, but to any
other, just a hodge-podge of poorly expressed and misleading cant.  It direct-
ed attention away from the author and shone it onto the plagerist.

Every zealous Christian I speak with has ACTS down cold.  Subsequent books of
the new testement are also much quoted, but when it comes to the old testement
and the first four books of the new, well, their not so handy.  They are all
Paul's disciples, not Jesus'; as you appear to be.

Perhaps I was wrong to characterize how Jesus would feel about the evolution
of his message, but I shudder at the heresy some of the supposed Christians
write to the net; yours notwithstanding.  Their bitterness and vitriolic att-
acks aimed at others who say something in disagreement with them, sickens me.
Sometimes shocking statements help towards a discussion whereby the 'log' can
be removed from their blind eye before they instruct others.  The doubt, hate
and bitterness is certainly not an example of Jesus' teachings; nor is a self-
righteous patronization of others you displayed towards me.  (Nor really is
mine towards you.)

If you look objectively, my generalizations are not without merit.  If they
are unacceptable to you, I can provide chapter and verse.  Of course, born-
agains will avow that the 'devil' can quote from the bible.  Very convenient
for them, not so?


Tad