Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!yale!decvax!ucbvax!ucbcad!nike!lll-crg!rutgers!caip!cbmvax!bpa!burdvax!devonst
From: devonst@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Re: one more time...
Message-ID: <2722@burdvax.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 2-Oct-86 09:33:10 EDT
Article-I.D.: burdvax.2722
Posted: Thu Oct  2 09:33:10 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 11-Oct-86 08:34:16 EDT
References: <2fa71dcd.33cd@apollo.uucp> <2fa77b2f.46@apollo.uucp> <1500@mtx5a.UUCP>
Sender: devonst@burdvax.UUCP
Reply-To: devonst@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht)
Organization: Burroughs Corp. - SDG/Devon
Lines: 78

wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) writes:
>In article <1500@mtx5a.UUCP> mat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) writes:
>
>>What kind of Sunday School was *that* ??  All of Christianity rests on a
>>single point: the Resurrection.  If Jesus did not rise from the dead after
>>a brutal crucifixion, there is no point whatsoever in Christianity.  ...
>
>No. What you mean to say is: I, Mark Terribile, reject any Christian
>who denies the resurrection as a Christian. Whether that Christian
>truly believes s/he is a Christian or not is beside the point, because
>I happen to have a direct line to the truth. And people who do not
>accept my definition of Christianity are deluding themselves.
>

For nearly two millenia the Christian faith has understood that there are
certain basic dogmas which define what it means to be a Christian.  Belief
in the bodily resurrection of Christ is one of these.  For you
to assert that one can be a Christian and deny the concept of the
resurrection is very bold and, I'm afraid to say, quite wrong.  The
resurrection is not some obscure and secondary teaching within
Christianity; it is the very foundation of the Christian faith.

>This kind of judgementalism and denial of the truth and wisdom in
>other approaches to living a good life are exactly the things that
>drive a large number of Americans out of the organized churches.

A Christian doesn't deny that other religions can offer some measure of
good to society.  You can live a "good life" in the human sense as part
of another religion.  But if you deny that Christ is the Son of God, that
His death was an attoning sacrifice for sin, that he rose from the dead as
evidence of His ultimate power over death, don't call yourself a Christian.
You're no more a Christian than a Hindu who denies these things.

>They've certainly turned me off to the idea of affiliating with
>any existing Christian denomination, in spite of the fact that I'm
>very concerned with the importance of fellowship, community action,
>and the search for religious meaning in my life. 

That's an interesting statement because many "mainline" denominations would
affirm the things you are saying.  There are ministers in the PCUSA church,
for instance, that deny the divinity of Christ and the bodily resurrection.

>Consequently, I
>am considering the Unitarian Universalist Church in my search for
>truth: an organization that accepts ANYONE who is interested in
>talking about religious issues, in fellowship, and in people being
>supportive of each other. To me, that's what religion should really be
>all about, not this literalist argument over dogma and the contents of
>a document that has been twisted and altered for nonreligious reasons
>over a span of 20 centuries.
>

That's what you think religion is all about.  That sounds a little to
wishy-washy for me.  I want to be a part of a group that knows where it is
going and is willing to help others find the way.  Christianity is a
religion that has a foundation outside the mere imaginations of men.  As it
has been said of the Jews, so it is true also of Christians, we are a
people of the Book.  

Unitarian Universalists are most certainly not Christians, but I guess
that's what you are looking for.  You appears as if you have made up your
mind about who Jesus Chrsit is and you don't want any part of it.  That's
OK, just don't tell Christians what Christianity is.

>After a few months of reading net.religion.christian, I have to say I
>have little interest in what's said in that group any more. So I've
>unsubscribed to that group and resubscribed to net.religion, a group
>that maybe will be a little more congenial to my hard-won beliefs.
>
>Geez, does this mean I'm an honorary member of HASA? :-)
>
>                       -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly 

I'll send this to net.religion so you'll see it.

--
Tom Albrecht
"Reformata, semper reformanda"