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From: daveb@pogo.UUCP
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Christian logic (or lack) was: Re: One more time
Message-ID: <2815@pogo.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 13-Oct-86 21:42:38 EDT
Article-I.D.: pogo.2815
Posted: Mon Oct 13 21:42:38 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 14-Oct-86 17:15:26 EDT
Reply-To: daveb@pogo.UUCP (Dave Butler)
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Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
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In article <6087@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, Charles Hendricks tried to answer some 
of my questions to Kiki. One of my questions was, "What laws will 
non-christians be judged by if they haven't heard of Jesus?" I wondered if 
it was the mosaic law (which is almost impossible to live up to). Charles 
said 

> that Gentiles who wanted to follow God were
> bound only by the Noachic laws, not by the entire Mosaic convenant.
> (This was a set of four laws that were enjoined on Noah's family when
> they left the ark. 

Took me a while to find reference to these laws (Charles, I really wish
that you'd put in references). The St James Bible doesn't specifically
mention them, but I did finally find them in an annotated Hebrew Pentateuch 
(First 5 books of Moses). There are only 3 Laws that explicitly translate to 
english :
	1. You shall not commit murder, or allow a murderer (human or 
	otherwise) to live.
	2. You shall not commit suicide. 
	3. You shall not eat the flesh of living animals and you
	shall above all not comsume the blood of any animal.

But Hebrew scholars note that there are 4 additional Noachic laws that are
implicit in the Hebrew, but don't translate well out of Hebrew because of
the way they were stated. These laws are:

	4. You shall not commit robbery.
	5. You will create courts of Law and Judgement.
	6. You will not commit Idolatry.
	7. You will not Blaspheme.

Well Charles, No. 6 will keep almost all the non-Christians out of Heaven,
and if it doesn't No. 3 will. Do you have any idea how many people eat blood?
The germanic people (and others) eat blutwurst (bloodwurst). The Masaii eat 
raw blood from *live* cattle mixed with milk. How many people eat live clams 
and oysters. Finally, how many people know how to butcher in the true Kosher 
fashion, so that no blood will be left in the muscle. To my knowledge, the 
Jews are the only ones that have developed a technique for doing that. Yep,
I doubt that more than a couple of percent of todays non-Christian population 
(which is approx 78% of the worlds population according to _The_World_Almanac_
) will be able to satisfy all the Noachic laws (To repeat myself, the 
Christian God should have seen that one coming).

Then Charles also said:

> The clear implication is that God
> finds some way to make himself known, and thus that those who haven't
> heard of Christ can still respond to God. 

Funny, according to almost all of ministers I've talked with, God cannot,
or will not, communicate with any man who has not been cleansed by blood 
sacrifice. Since the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed (the only place 
humans could make blood sacrifice), the only blood sacrifice available was 
that of Jesus. If a man is not cleansed by such a sacrifice, God will not 
communicate with him (ie: even if a man believed in God, but didn't accept 
Jesus, he was still damned to hell. No matter how good a man he was, God
would never hear him or speak to him). Did these people speak out of 
ignorance, or were they lying to me?

				Hoping for further clarification,

				Dave Butler


    Remember: Silly is a state of Mind, Stupid is a way of Life.