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From: djo@ptsfd.UUCP
Newsgroups: mod.religion.christian
Subject: Meditations/Questions on The Lord's Prayer
Message-ID: <6193@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: Sun, 12-Oct-86 23:15:14 EDT
Article-I.D.: topaz.6193
Posted: Sun Oct 12 23:15:14 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 13-Oct-86 06:04:16 EDT
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Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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Greetings all.

I'm a nonsectarian (though more-or-less mainstream) Christian who spends
a certain amount of idle CPU time puzzling about things divine and always
coming up with more questions than answers.  In particular, I've been
pondering the Lord's Prayer for some time now and have a few thoughts and
questions.

First, the version I use (taught me at my grandmother's knee, literally):

"Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name.  Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.  Give us this day our daily
bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against
us.  Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.  For thine is
the Kingdom and the power and the glory, for ever, amen."

(Yes, I realize "amen" isn't part of it, but it looks strange without it
anywhere but in the Book.)

The question that finally drove me to this posting is this:  What does
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done" actually mean?  In particular, "Thy
kingdom come" seems terribly opaque; does this mean
	-Your kingdom is coming?
	-Your kingdom has come?
	-When your kingdom comes (then your will will be done)?

Or what?  Beats me.  Maybe I'm just trying too hard and I've missed something
obvious; it wouldn't be the first time THAT's happened.

Regarding "deliver us from evil."  Nine years ago (I'm certain of the date
because the sermon went on at great length about the recently-released
STAR WARS), the preacher at First Presb. of Berkeley told us that the
correct translation of this verse was "deliver us from the evil one."  This
is a major difference!  Rather than asking to be protected from having evil
done to us, it becomes a logical and natural extension of "Lead us not into
temptation" -- if we are not tempted, the evil one won't get us in the "end."
Does anyone know anything further about this?

Regarding "hallowed be Thy name."  This bothered me for a long time.  Was it
merely an extension of the Hebrew prohibition of pronouncing the Tetragrammaton,
or is there something more there?  I finally decided that as long as one keeps
it in mind when in a mood to cuss, there's probably little more to worry about
here.  Disagreement?

So:  A possible paraphrase taking in my best interpretation of the
whole, and VERY MUCH subject to revision by what the combined minds of
Mod.Christian have to offer:

Personal and loving Creator of us all,
In a blessed and omniscient state,
We address You with all possible respect.

When Your kingdom comes, Your will will be done
in the physical Universe, as it has always been
in the spiritual.

Give us today the things we need for today,
and forgive us the wrongs we have done and will
undoubtedly do in the future, while and to the
extent that we forgive wrongs done against us
by others.

Strengthen our wills against the temptatian to
sin, and so keep us from the clutches of our
souls' adversary.

We ask this of You because you are the one
with authority over us and power to aid us,
now and always.  

*****

The prose is pretty lame and I prefer the original (as I'm sure you all
do too), but sometimes the words are repeated so often that something like
a paraphrase is needed to restore their meaning other than as a ritual
chant.  In TM they give you a mantra and tell you not to worry about
what it means; I think the Lord's Prayer is more significant (= meaningful)
than a mantra.

I hope this spurs some interesting/thoughtful discussion.  If you disagree
with me, that's fine; I'm not setting myself up as any sort of authority.
If you MUST flame me do it by mail rather than boring others with it; but
disagreement I accept in all humility, in the hope I can learn from your
insights.

Peace to you all,

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes