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From: ken@pdn.UUCP (Ken Auer)
Newsgroups: net.lang.st80
Subject: Re: Digitalk Smalltalk/V
Message-ID: <314@pdn.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 3-Nov-86 09:16:03 EST
Article-I.D.: pdn.314
Posted: Mon Nov  3 09:16:03 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 4-Nov-86 08:33:56 EST
References: <41899@beno.seismo.CSS.GOV>
Organization: Paradyne Corporation, Largo, Florida
Lines: 61
Summary: REAL SMALLTALK ?!?  I don't think so

In article <41899@beno.seismo.CSS.GOV>, mo@seismo.CSS.GOV (Mike O'Dell) writes:
> 
> Digitalk Smalltalk is VERY GOOD!!  It is real Smalltalk,
> not at all like TURBOT {Pascal,Prolog,etc}.  It runs on
> AT-class machines very very quickly.  It is NOT running
> a Xerox Image, however.  They started with the Byte articles,
> and a blank sheet of paper.  When The Books finally appeared,
> they brought a lot of things into closer conformance,
> but it is, without a doubt, Real Smalltalk (that is not
> merely my opinion).  It supports several different
> graphics adaptors, and for $59 they have a system
> called "Methods" which uses cursor addressing instead
> of bitmapped displays.  If you have a fast XT clone
> or an AT, or even an XT if you use Methods, and
> want to learn something about Smalltalk, (and don't
> have a Sun 3/160 running PS at the office!!), 
> ...

Excuse me, Mike, but ...

Smalltalk/V is NOT "real Smalltalk-80".  Although it is a very good
product, I agree (especially for the price), it is not -- and probably
never will be -- REAL SMALLTALK.

Having evalulated the two, I know the differences are almost nil in
concepts, syntax, etc., however, the two are NOT the same language.  As you 
say, Digitalk is NOT running the XEROX virtual image (which is one reason the
price is so low).  Many of the Smalltalk classes have either
disappeared, or have been substituted by new implementations.  For
example, the Model-View-Controller concept from Smalltalk-80 is, in some
ways, very different.  I, and most other Smalltalk users, think that 
Digitalk's version is much easier to grasp, and probably much cleaner.  
However, it is also much less powerful.  There are many other differences 
between the two, which I will not begin to list here (however, if you 
send me a self-addressed stamped envelope -- and a sizeable check -- the 
list can be yours :-) :-)).

Don't get me wrong, Smalltalk/V is an extremely good product, and I
commend Digitalk in their efforts.  However, a Smalltalk/V expert will
not be an instant Smalltalk-80 expert.  In fact, as I've experienced,
learning one before the other could be a frustrating experience when
switching.  Anyone who wants to get their feet wet before deciding
whether to purchase/use/adopt Smalltalk-80 would probably be making a
wise decision in purchasing Smalltalk/V.  Anyone who couldn't care less
about Smalltalk-80, but wants to get their hands on an inexpensive,
solid Object-Oriented language/environment, would also be making a wise
decision in purchasing Smalltalk/V.  However, since it is NOT
Smalltalk-80, and is in no way associated with Xerox (to my
understanding), there could be many drawbacks, depending on one's
intentions when purchasing Smalltalk/V.  

Personally, I prefer the REAL Smalltalk-80, for many reasons.  

Now that everybody is informed of the truth, I'll get off my soapbox.

-------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer,
and they're not necessarily mine until I speak to my lawyer.

			Ken Auer
			...akgua!codas!novavax!usfvax2!pdn!ken