Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!rutgers!sri-spam!sri-unix!hplabs!tektronix!tekgen!tekigm!tekigm2!wrd From: wrd@tekigm2.UUCP (Bill Dippert) Newsgroups: net.micro.atari8,net.micro.atari16 Subject: Re: Ataris At Work Message-ID: <1142@tekigm2.UUCP> Date: Sat, 25-Oct-86 12:37:31 EST Article-I.D.: tekigm2.1142 Posted: Sat Oct 25 12:37:31 1986 Date-Received: Mon, 27-Oct-86 00:34:06 EST References: <1128@tekigm2.UUCP> <405@uwmacc.UUCP> Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or. Lines: 121 Xref: watmath net.micro.atari8:531 net.micro.atari16:2803 In article <405@uwmacc.UUCP>, oyster@uwmacc.UUCP (Vicarious Oyster) writes: > In article <1128@tekigm2.UUCP> wrd@tekigm2.UUCP (Bill Dippert) writes: > >From the sounds of recent messages, I am not the only one who would rather be > >using an Atari at work rather then an IBM. Whether a ST or a XE/XL is, I > >think, a moot point. > > I don't think it's such a moot point. > > > As a workstation, the 8-bit Atari lacks one thing that is essential: 80 > characters per line. Unless things have changed since I bought an 8-bit > Atari, you still need to get "a special card." Color is nice (I don't like > doing without it), but that's just icing on the cake for a workstation. You have two choices here: one buy the new XEP80 80 column adapter device or two, buy software that allows 80/132 wide screens (with horizontal scrolling). Admittedly horizontal scrolling is the pits but it beats 80 columns interlaced into 38 columns. > But what about the capabilities as a microcomputer, you ask? Well, the > IBM has the 8-bit beat here, too. Say you want to hook a standard printer > up to your 1200XL; what do you do? Call mail-order place after mail-order > place, trying to find somebody who knows what kind of cable you need; then > pay $59.95, only to discover that the 1200XL is different somehow than the > rest of Atari's 8-bit machines, so you have to go through the whole cycle > again. Oh, and what about a modem-- you know, a standard Hayes-compatible. While I was no getting into modems, I will admit that you need an 850 interface for almost anything, be it modem or printer. (Or another 850 equivalent--except that Atari is providing an RS232 port on the new XEP80 for printer or whatever. And trying to find cables to connect a IBM into anything as simple as a Epson printer can be just as much a pain. I have an easier time locating Atari cables then IBM cables unless I go to mailorder. > Well, you can spend another $59.95 for a gizmo that you stick in the > joystick ports, but you need to use the software that comes with the gizmo. > And speaking of software, the IBM has just about every micro I know about > beat cold in both public domain software and commercial software, in both > quality and quantity. That may be only because of the perceived usage of > the respective machines, but frankly, I would not even *think* of trying > to market a serious program for the 8-bit Atari, if only because of what > I know about the, um, "habits" of local Atari users with regard to software > piracy. I think that there is as much public domain software out there for the Atari 8 bitter as there is for IBM. And the software that you buy at the dealer (read: commercial software) is a heck of a lot cheaper for Atari then IBM. Although they are getting closer! Atariwriter+ costs $49.95, pfs:write costs $89.99. > There's a guy who gets pissed when, for example, Analog states > that there isn't much Atari software because of piracy, but who has a I agree that piracy is deplorable, but I doubt that anyone does not have some pirated software. My feeling is that if it is still available at the dealer, then you should pay for it. (Dealer being anything from your local computer store, to mailorder, to the publisher of the software). But, and this is a big but, if it no longer is available anywhere legitimately, then I will used a socalled "pirated" copy. This generally applies to games, as they seem to be the most pirated software. I don't think that I have ever seen real useful software pirated (ala Syncalc, SynFile, etc.), these are currently available and are reasonably priced so there is no incentive to pirate them. Or am I being undully naive? > > However, after all that, I'd much rather have an ST on my desk. It > solves all the terribly frustrating connectivity problems I had with my > 1200XL, has (or at least had) an *extremely* crisp 80-column color monitor, > and has software and hardware capabilities unquestionably more sophisticated > than the 8-bit line. I am glad that you like the ST line, personally I hate mice and windows with a passion. But admittedly the ST line is fairly well thought out line. It should get more software as time goes on. And you have to admit that the 1200XL was an aberrition. I have two of them as well as my 800XL and my 130XE. So I have had experience with them -- I have never had any software that I could not use on all four machines, albeit some on the 800XL requires the translator disk and more on the 1200XL require it. Apparenly the 130XE OS has been corrected as it seems to take software that the XL's require the translator for. Two of the machines (800XL and one of the 1200XL s) have had the Newell 256k upgrades installed. For all practical purposes, they are the equivalent of the 130XE now, except that they still sometimes require the translator disk. Example: the new Atari Planetarium program (which I recently purchased) will load up on all of the machines. The 1200XLE requires the translator, the 800XLE does not. However, during the time that the program is calculating, the 130XE shows the correct screen , the XLE's show gibberish. Apparently the Planetarium program uses a different form of bank selection or something. At anyrate, getting back to my original discussion: I have purchased AW+, SynCalc, SynFile, SynGraph, etc. and they would suit my "business" needs just as well as the software I have at work for my IBM-XT. Maybe I don't have quite the memory available, but it is adequate for what I need. There is even a form of CAD available now for the XE (albeit somewhat crude). So I say that the XL/XE series are just as useful in business as the ST (unless you really need the .5 -- 1 Meg of memory). [And the 130XE can be pumped up to 1 MEG if you need it!] > Short digression: Owners of 8-bit machines can take that as snobbery > if they wish (somebody always does, regardless of how tactfully it's > expressed), but it's a plain and simple fact that the 8-bit microprocessor > is nowhere near the present state of the art in cheap microcomputing. > For some uses, the 8-bit micros can perform as well as the owner of the > machine wants or expects it too; however, I personally could not tolerate > using most of today's 8-bit offerings for the kind of things I do, both > here at the office and while "playing" at home. Not snobbery, but your only advantage is memory and possible IBM compatibility. > And now, back to the ST: > It still doesn't have as much good, cheap software as the IBM PC (unless > somebody can show me an emulation/communications program as good and > cheap as ProComm), but it's got enough already to do most of what I do > every day, it's cheaper, and I like the environment better (using > Micro C-Shell, not the standard GEM desktop). If Atari could afford to > provide a bit of IBM-style support, it would be an ideal machine. Instead, > it's "merely" the best thing around in terms of cheap home computing. > Unfortunately, my superiors don't want to believe it, so I'm using this > XT. As you so eloquently stated above: Arghh! Having never used C or Pascal or Action! I cannot testify to the usefulness of the 8bitter machines, but these languages are available for the XL/XE's. > - Joel Plutchak, former 1200XL owner > uucp: {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster > ARPA: oyster@unix.macc.wisc.edu > > Can you say "opinion"? I *knew* you could! - Bill Dippert, current owner of 130XE/800XLE/1200XLE/1200XL uucp: tektronix!tekigm2!wrd Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts. (Jack Friday, Dragnet)