Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!think!rutgers!lll-crg!styx!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!hplabs!decwrl!sun!plx!ed From: ed@plx.UUCP (Ed Chaban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Future Amigas & suggestions (Very Long) Message-ID: <323@plx.UUCP> Date: Mon, 17-Nov-86 17:13:12 EST Article-I.D.: plx.323 Posted: Mon Nov 17 17:13:12 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 18-Nov-86 08:44:48 EST References: <320@plx.UUCP> <9304@sun.uucp> Distribution: net Organization: Plexus Computers; San Jose, CA Lines: 129 In Article: <9304@sun.uucp> Chuck Mc Manis weites: > >> In summary, I don't believe Commodore should even think about directly > >> competing in the workstation market - the support would be too expensive. > > > >In summary, I don't believe Commodore has ever *SERIOUSLY* thought about > >competing in *ANY* market. > > Harumph! I think if you talk to Commodore you would find that they do > indeed have some definite ideas about where their market is but what > generally seems be the case is that the Amiga got rushed out the door > because Commodore had cash flow problems. This has caused a somewhat > jumbled view of the product in the market place. Had they been able to > afford to make the last 12 months a "beta and developing" phase and > introduced it today it would make a much better impression I am sure. > As far as I know Commodore is successfully penetrating the graphics > arts markets, video effects market, and home computer market. These are markets? Come on now! anyone interested in doing professional video will use a PIXAR or something. Amateurs may be interested in using the Amiga but this is not a serious market. (no starving artist can afford a $2500 machine) > > >> What Commodore seems to be doing from the rumors makes sense - improve what > >> they have! Yes it will compete with what's being sold now but what's being > >> sold now might not go on being sold forever. I.e., new machines REPLACE, > >> not compete with, the existing ones. I doubt, for example, if Apple sells > >> too many basic Macintoshes anymore. The Mac Plus is a much better machine. > > > >You're missing the point. Apple allowed those folks who bought the early > >128K "Wimp-Mac" the opportunity to upgrade their systems rather than junk > >them. Amiga has no such plans. > > No Ed, I think you have missed the point. First, Amigas base machine is > 256K, and it is easily and inexpensively upgraded to 512K. The Mac upgrade > to 512K was $900 when it came out. With $900 you can upgrade an Amiga to > 2.5 Meg. Anyone can upgrade their Amiga today, everyone seems so paranoid So what? 512K is nothing these days. What you failed to mention Chuck is the fact that most memory expansions for the Amiga take up the Bus so further expansion is impossible. > Finally, your last statement is probably > the most perplexing, did someone at Amiga tell you that a) There would > be a more powerful machine, and b) they would not offer an opportunity > to upgrade them, or did you just believe this to be true? I *HOPE* I'm proven wrong here, but I understand that the new 68010 1 Meg machine will be a seperate product (although completely compatable with the A1000) and the Commodore will *NOT* make an upgrade available. > > >> Commodore is in the home and personal computer business, as I see it, and not > >> the "micro-mini" or workstation market. > > > >If so, why are "Hackers & Engineers" so endeared to the product? > >Why is there a *DEARTH* of decent Productivity tools and an overabundance > >of games and obscure languages (FORTH etc.) no spreadsheets, no WYSIWIG > >wordprocessors, no affordable Hard Disks. > > Your making statements based on some preconcieved standards. I assume from > your previous postings that those standards are an IBM PC/XT with a 10Meg > hard disk. The answer to your first question is because for the first time Yep! I am making statements based on preconcieved standards. That's what standards are for! You cannot successfully market a product without *AT LEAST* matching the capabilities of your competition. > in the United States there is an inexpensive microbased machine that has > a *real* operating system. (My standard of reference here is the definition > of an operating system as put forth by the "Operating System Fundamentals" > by Wiley Press Publ.) It actually manages resources, is not artifically ...[ Long Tirade on Operating Systems]... > The average buyer does not CARE about operating system internals! He want's a tool to get his work done. All the Amiga Operating System has done is confuse those programmers who were comfortable with CPM or MS-Dos or UNIX. Again, Amiga has *IGNORED* standards and tried to establish their own. Only Apple and IBM can do that now that the Personal Computer Marketplace has matured. > >The personal computer marketplace demands THREE (count 'em 3) basic > >features to insure a product's success: > > > > (1) Spreadsheets > > a. IBM has Lotus. > > b. Mac has EXCEL. > > c. AMIGA has MAXIPLAN which was written in C (READ: shit!) > > or VIP which ignores all the wonderful hardware. > > > > (2) Word Processing > > a. IBM practically defined it with Wordstar. > > b. Mac did it one better with the Laserwriter & WYSIWIG. > > c. AMIGA is nonexistent. > > > > (3) A comittment to keeping the product alive > > a. The IBM PC has been around for eons. > > b. The Apple ][ lives on and the Mac has been > > here for about 4 years. > > c. AMIGA is about a year old and will be > > "Replaced" (you said it, I didn't) in > > a few months. > > > > My only comment to this is that the Mac and the IBM PC have both been around > for 4 or more years. If you believe it is possible to create a Lotus or Excel > or Wordstar or Word in one year on a new machine you are very naive. The *only* Only if you use some God-Forsaken-Obscure operating system you mean. > >Nuff Said! > Amen! The point I was trying to make is that if Commodore was serious about making the Amiga a success, more time would have been spent on *SOFTWARE* In order to make up for that dearth of software a quick & dirty Software Kludge called the "Transformer" was created. When that fell on it's ass, the Sidecar was announced. I understand that the next Amiga will have IBM Clone Hardware *BUILT IN* Ironic isn't it? the "Better Mousetrap" will have to rely on an ancient design by a BIG corporation and compete with similar clones from the far east with *FAR* lower prices. MADNESS!!! Ed Chaban (former AMIGA owner!) Plexus Computers Inc. Phone: (408) 943-2226 Net: sun!plx!ed