Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!cmcmanis From: cmcmanis@sun.uucp (Chuck McManis) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: 68020 Upgrades & Macintosh (some Comments) Message-ID: <10199@sun.uucp> Date: Sat, 6-Dec-86 16:55:02 EST Article-I.D.: sun.10199 Posted: Sat Dec 6 16:55:02 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 7-Dec-86 05:28:40 EST References: <385@plx.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 112 Summary: Ha Ha Ha, I'm not weeping In article <385@plx.UUCP>, ed@plx.UUCP (Ed Chaban) writes: > The following is from comp.sys.mac: Read it and weep!! I did, and I didn't. > Ed forwards some hearsay from the comp.sys.mac and asks for some comments, I had sworn off commenting to Ed's stuff but this message was particulary interesting ... > >Next year there will be three Mac computers, the MacPlus, Aladdin, and Paris. > >The MacPlus will remain the same except that the retail price will drop to > >$1795. The MacPlus and the HD 20 SCSI drive will be bundled together for > >$2495. With those prices they had better close down the Apple IIGS line. They seem pretty aggressive for Apple but I expect during next year will still be much higher than the Amiga prices. No mention of memory, I wonder if they are all 1 Meg machines. >> >>Aladdin is the code name for Apple's $2795 68020 Mac with double 800k drives. >>It will look like the MacPlus and it will be Apple's last upgrade ($899) for >>the Mac. ^^^^^^^ ^^^ Ed is emphasizing the upgrade here I believe, apparently he doesn't know about the CSA board which will upgrade your existing Amiga with double 800K drives to a 68020 for about the same price. Of course the new Apple won't be able to run existing software because the Apple O/S can't handle the '020s architecture but I am sure every one will offer to trade money for upgrades. >> ... It will have two slots on the motherboard and the keyboard will have >>MS DOS-like function keys. Apple will bundle the Aladdin with HD 20 SCSI for >>$3495. The insides should have a 16MHz, 68020 processor, a 68881 math >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>co-processor, an 80dpi screen, and an option for 1.6MB double 3.5" drives. >>Compatibility is keeping Apple from a certain January debut. Memory size was >>not mentioned. Well lets see, the Amiga already has MS-DOS like function keys, and a ctrl key, and a few others that Apple has finally realized are useful. Good for them. You didn't mention if the Aladdin "upgrade" will include the new keyboard, if not, your back to selling your Mac and buying an Aladdin. Of course CSA's turbo rack can include a 20 Meg hard drive. It is more expensive to buy a CSA turbo Amiga than this mythical Apple product but there are a couple of differences, a) it is real and available now, b) it has slots already and expansion boards to use them, if your monitor is 9" wide and you adjust the width control to make the displayed screen 8" wide it has an 80dpi screen (actually all Amiga's do, wow and if you use a 1" monitor is has a 640 dpi screen) c) Its color and the aladdin isn't, d) with 1.2 you can stick anyones 1.6M or 10Meg floppies on to it. >> >>Paris is Apple's $4-7K SUN/AT/VAX killer.It will have a 68020/68881 processor >>package, 1.6MB 3.5" floppy drives, 80 dpi screen, 8 slots on the motherboard, >>and will use a VME bus. The basic Paris (no hard disk) will sell for $3995 >> ^^^^^^^ >>in March. The Paris Workstation will sell for $5495 and will have standard >>40 MB internal HD and a Radius-like full page screen (March or later). At >>$6995 you can have a color Paris. Memory size was not mentioned. >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>Compatibility is the name of the game with Paris. Apple wants as many third >>party boards and as much software as possible. This system CAN support >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>multi-tasking, so it has to be as "open" and standard as possible. >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Point 1. VME Bus? You ever priced VME Bus peripherals? And is it single or double wide, or quad wide? With 8 slots this sucker is going to be bigger than an AT. Is it a deskside machine? Point 2. At $6995 what kind of color resolution are you talking about, certainly not the 1100 X 900 with 256 colors that Sun offers, maybe PGA levels (640 X 480 ?) Any bets on if that price includes the monitor ? Point 3. CAN but it DOESN'T. Any mention of an MMU? Sounds like Apple will be in the same spot with this mythical workstation as they were with the Apple IIGS, sure you can run all the old stuff but no software to take advantage of the nifty new features. Also sounds a lot like the problems the AT is having with new software, the 8088 stuff can't run on a '286 in protected mode, so very little progress has occured in that direction. How many Mac programmers are going to write code that works on this wizzy machine if it won't also work on the umpteen thousand Macs out there? How many of these things do you expect people to buy? You can buy a used Sun 2 with 71 MB of disk space and real Unix for less than $10K, is being able to use Mac Draw that much of an advantage? Point 4. Ed, this speculating on what Apple may or may not introduce is a pointless way to introduce heartburn. Everyone knows that as time goes on equipment gets more powerful and less expensive, Apple will surely continue that trend. However, you can always say "I will wait till next year and get all this and more for the same n dollars" or say "I will wait till next year and get the same for n dollars less." What you have to compare that to is the value of having a machine *now*. If it is not worth it to you to have the machine then wait for what you have judged to be the best combination of power and price for your applications. > > Comments anyone? > Disclaimer: The above is as reported on the MacUnderground. I am only a > subscriber and know as much as you do about the new Macs. > > Ed Chaban I reserve my final comments for such time as Apple actually has such a product and is shippling it. In the mean time I will file the info about the "Paris" and the "Aladdin" in the same place I filed the info about the Apple File Server, my "Wait and See but don't hold your breath" basket. [Extra Disclaimer : I promise I won't do it again, really!] -- --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.