Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site jade.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!jade!jkh From: jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) Newsgroups: mod.rec.guns Subject: Re: mod.rec.guns: Gun selection Message-ID: <1534@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Mon, 27-Oct-86 14:32:18 EST Article-I.D.: jade.1534 Posted: Mon Oct 27 14:32:18 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 28-Oct-86 17:57:10 EST References: <1425@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <1490@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Reply-To: apple!michael@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Deux) Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 72 Approved: jkh@ucbjade Author: voder!apple!michael@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu (Michael Deux) Apparently-To: voder!ucbvax!ucbopal!jkh Article: 10:46 In article <1490@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> osmigo1@ngp.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes: >Article: 10:36 > >There are a few things to consider when purchasing a "home-defense" weapon. >First, your neighbors. Any kind of weapon firing solid bullets, such as a >handgun or rifle, is perfectly capable of going through 2 or 3 walls in a >typical apartment complex and blowing your neighbor's 2-day-old baby in two. Very true, though I would quible with the statement that 'Any ...firing solid bullets'; the police use low velocity 38's to reduce (NOT eliminate!) the problem. Any is a very big word. But the substance is true. Walls only slow down and deflect a slug. >A shotgun is no garauntee against this, either. A couple of years ago, a >young boy was playing in his garage. A guy across the street fired a 12-gauge >loaded with #00 buck, and one of the pellets penetrated the garage door and 00 buck is about 25 calibre if I remember right. Those are 'solid bullets' in my book. Use of BB shot or smaller reduces the problem greatly. >Third, weapon selection. The only solid-bullet piece that is safe would be >a high-velocity, small-caliber weapon such as a .223. These bullets will >disintegrate upon hitting any object of substance. However, if your victim >is wearing heavy winter clothes, you might not accomplish much even if you >did hit him. That brings us to buckshot. One thing to remember here is that Bull. The energy of a 223 is enough to go through any (yes, any) mormal winter clothing. (Normal excludes body armour and several inches of leather.) A .223 has more energy than needed to shove the bullet through a couple of boards and do damage on the other side. Try it. The bullet will be badly deformed comming out the other side, but it will still kill you. Military requirments for the .223 *REQUIRE* that it penetrate a helmet at some large range. (I know these are tungsten or steel core bullets, but at short range you don't need the penetrator. Houses are short range.) >regardless of the size of the shot, the total weight of the load, and thus >its total energy, remains the same. A standard 12-gauge #00 load only has >9 to 12 pellets. If only two or three hit him, you could find yourself in an >exciting situation. Of course, smaller stuff like #7 1/2's won't have enough >penetration, although, they would probably knock him down. I'd suggest BB shot In home defence the range will not typically exceed 10-15 yards. At that range the pattern of a shotgun is but a few inches. If you hit them somewhere with one or two pellets, it has to be an edge. If you hit them somewhere vital with one or two pellets, all the others are going to be within the same vital area. (Midline of body +/- 3 inches with a shotgun WILL be lethal. All of the pellets but flyers will hit. Being hit with 2 to 3 00 buck is the same as being hit 2 to 3 times with a 25 calibre handgun. Most people will be badly damaged. Depending on location of hit, a PCP user might not stop. For them try TNT... >or perhaps #2's. These give you a much denser pattern (45 to 100 pellets), yet >can penetrate well, and enough of them will hit the target to do the job. It This is sound advice. This loading will create an area of hamburger about 4 inches in diameter to a reasonable depth. It should be stopped by MOST walls. Get a short automatic or pump shotgun with this kind of loading. Don't bother with the 20 gauge. If the kick is more than you wife likes, use light loads in 12 guage. They will tend to penetrate walls less also. (And anyone who keeps comming after you put a few ounces (one per shot!) of lead in them wouldn't have noticed the higher loading anyway 'cause they must be a ghost already! :-) -- Michael Deux apple!michael 'Things are not always as simple as you might think ...'