Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!topaz!christian From: devonst@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) Newsgroups: mod.religion.christian Subject: Romans 9 Message-ID: <7152@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> Date: Wed, 19-Nov-86 03:44:50 EST Article-I.D.: topaz.7152 Posted: Wed Nov 19 03:44:50 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 19-Nov-86 06:24:09 EST Sender: hedrick@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU Organization: System Development Corp. Lines: 64 Approved: christian@topaz.UUCP I think that Charles Hedrick makes some important observations in discussing the Romans 9 passage. It is true that Paul is discussing the fate of the Jews and the apparent hardening they are experiencing to the benefit of the gentiles. I do think we need to go a little farther and attempt to tackle the question of whether this passage speaks in any way of the condition of individuals. Paul used the picture of Pharaoh by way of explanation so that we might have more information to go on. The clay analogy by itself may be insufficient (although I don't think it is). Those who would attempt to assert that man is totally free in accepting or rejecting God's salvation certainly have their arguments undermined by these verses. He also uses the examples of Jacob and Esau to show that God's sovereign choice extends not only to nations, but also to individuals. Israel mistakenly believed that the natural inheritance which they received form Abraham was sufficient to secure their salvation. Jesus showed the error in this thinking when, after the Jews claim Abraham as their father, He says in John 8, "If you were Abraham's children then you would do the things Abraham did. ... You are doing the things you own father does." He later tells them that their father is the devil. Paul may have had these statements of Jesus in mind when he discusses the children of promise in Romans 9. Not all those who are physically descended from Abraham are the children of promise, but only those who come through the line of Isaac. Paul goes even further in proposing that God was perfectly just in saying, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Obviously, if we believe that God can harden a race, such as the Jews, in order to accomplish His will in salvation, then He must have the ability to harden individuals within that race. Some have suggested that in the potter/clay relationship we see a choice. That the clay has a choice as to what shape it will be. If the clay chooses to remain soft and pliable, then it will become a vessel of honor. If, however, it chooses to dry up and be unworkable to the potter, it will become a vessel of dishonor. This understanding clearly violates certain rules of biblical interpretation. If that were the case anyone could twist any analogy to suit the desired results. If you talk to any human potter and discuss the work he's doing I would venture to guess that you would never get him to admit to believing that somehow the clay can will to be more or less workable. But we must proceed from the assumption that men are unable to accept the offer of salvation found in the Gospel without the direct intervention of God. The Bible says that no one seeks after God. Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, ..." (John 6:44) The Bible talks about people being dead in sin. Now if death is a state of complete helplessness then it would follow that some sort of intervention is required in order to make that dead person alive. The story of the raising of Lazarus is a good picture of salvation. While Lazarus was in the tomb there was nothing he could do to change is condition. It required divine intervention for him to receive life and come out of the tomb. The fact that Jesus also called Lazarus by name speaks to the fact that God knows each of us individually and calls each one of us to himself by name. God's election is too often framed in the wrong terms. Most people who are exposed to the doctrines of grace for the first time ask the question, "Why would a loving God choose some for salvation and not others? That's so unfair." I prefer to look at it this way, "Why did a holy God choose anyone to receive eternal life? He would have been justified in leaving all of us to suffer the punishment for our sins." It is by His grace alone that we are saved. -- Tom Albrecht "Reformata, semper reformanda"