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From: desj@brahms (David desJardins)
Newsgroups: sci.math,sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Military funding in maths
Message-ID: <354@cartan.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tue, 18-Nov-86 17:12:46 EST
Article-I.D.: cartan.354
Posted: Tue Nov 18 17:12:46 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 18-Nov-86 22:04:20 EST
References: <307@stracs.cs.strath.ac.uk> <2274@mtgzz.UUCP> <344@cartan.Berkeley.EDU>
Sender: daemon@cartan.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: desj@brahms (David desJardins)
Organization: Math Dept. UC Berkeley
Lines: 32
Xref: mnetor sci.math:212 sci.crypt:52

In article <344@cartan.Berkeley.EDU> weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <2274@mtgzz.UUCP> leeper@mtgzz.UUCP writes:
>>						    Cryptography did not
>>turn the tide in WWII,
>
>Nonsense.  Cryptography *was* the tide, major battle after battle, from
>Britain to El Alemain to Ardennes II to Stalingrad to Kursk to Midway to
>Leyte Gulf.   Read Hinsley et al for starts before spouting off like the
>above.

   I agree cryptography and intelligence are of great importance, but I
think it is ridiculous to claim that the Axis would have won the war if
they had had better mathematicians (or had better used the ones they had).
The odds were too heavily against them.  Nobody is denying that crypto-
graphy was of value, but can you seriously claim that it turned the
tide of the war?  The tide turned in June 1941 when Germany invaded
Russia (if not sooner); from that point on they didn't have a chance.
   I don't see how you can attribute the Allied victory to cryptography
rather than to our overwhelming advantage in manpower and production.
Just as I don't see how you can attribute the early Axis victories, and
German survival until 1945, to anything other than overwhelmingly superior
tactics and leadership.
   In the Pacific cryptography played a greater role, but it still is
unimaginable that we could lose that war.

   And don't try to accuse me of not having read on the subject.

   -- David desJardins

P.S. Very sorry to post this to sci.math, but where does it go?  Sci.crypt
would be better I suppose, but we really need a sci.history group.  Sigh.
Anyway, please try to followup only to appropriate groups.