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From: clewis@spectrix.UUCP (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: sci.math,sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Military funding in maths
Message-ID: <193@spectrix.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 20-Nov-86 15:37:18 EST
Article-I.D.: spectrix.193
Posted: Thu Nov 20 15:37:18 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 20-Nov-86 17:32:25 EST
References: <307@stracs.cs.strath.ac.uk> <2274@mtgzz.UUCP> <344@cartan.Berkeley.EDU> <354@cartan.Berkeley.EDU> <844@marlin.UUCP>
Reply-To: clewis@spectrix.UUCP (Chris Lewis)
Organization: Spectrix Microsystems Inc., Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 52
Xref: mnetor sci.math:222 sci.crypt:57

In article <844@marlin.UUCP> herman@marlin.UUCP (John W. Herman) writes:

I agree completely - only a few minor points...

>1.  What does "winning the war" mean?  Both Germany and Japan had the 
>capability to continue to wage war.  They became convinced that the  
>war was not winnable.  It is not always easy to determine the point 
>at which a country is defeated.

Japan could have fought on (considering how more atomic bombs the US had 
after Nagasaki - namely zero) for a while (a year or two).  Germany?  
Hardly.  When hostilities ended the AXIS controlled area consisted of 
Berlin (and a few inconsequential pockets)... And Berlin was having the 
shit pounded out of it - 20,000 Russian artillery pieces firing continuously 
for weeks...

And, it also depends on *who* thinks the war was unwinnable.  Senior
German staff officers (Eg: Rommel) believed that the war was unwinnable
since around 1942.  Unfortunately, Hitler didn't - and Rommel died under
suspicious circumstances...

>2.  The outcome of the war was in doubt until the submarine battle in
>the Atlantic was won.  

That all depends on what you mean by "won".  Late 1942 when the ship
losses started to go down drastically?  Or 1944 when the allies were
able to almost completely destroy the submarine fleet?

Coming from a different point of view, consider this: the outcome of
the invasion of France was in no doubt whatsoever - the Germans would
have lost, ... except, Guderian disobeyed *direct* orders from Hitler 
(by feigning radio problems) to stop his tanks just inside the border and
wait for the infantry.  If he had followed orders, the war would have run
quite differently.  Too bad ULTRA missed that one.

>Intelligence and cryptography had a great deal to do with that turning point.  
                                                           ----
I agree, as long as you change that to "all turning points".  Dere's
tousands of 'em! :-)

>Matters such as this are subject to a great deal of discussion because
>there is only one reality which we can examine.  'What happens if' is
>a subject which has appeared in many (mostly poorly done) Science Fiction
>novels.

Absolutely true!
-- 
Chris Lewis
Spectrix Microsystems Inc,
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