Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mit-eddie!husc6!necntc!adelie!cdx39!jc From: jc@cdx39.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.mail.headers,comp.mail.uucp Subject: Re: another reason not to route uucp ! format paths Message-ID: <635@cdx39.UUCP> Date: Tue, 3-Feb-87 11:35:20 EST Article-I.D.: cdx39.635 Posted: Tue Feb 3 11:35:20 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 7-Feb-87 18:27:47 EST References: <14396@amdcad.UUCP> <613@cdx39.UUCP> <2576@phri.UUCP> <390@minnie.UUCP> Organization: Codex Corp, a division of Motorola; Canton, MA, USA Lines: 55 Xref: watmath comp.mail.headers:133 comp.mail.uucp:226 > >Uucp is, after all, used for a lot more than email. Even with > >intelligent mail routers installed everywhere (which is still > >not too close to realization), people would still be making > >little, temporary links and running uucp across it for purposes > >like downloading binaries and uuxing them. Requiring that users > >first spend several orders of magnitude more time consulting a > >name authority is not realistic. > > Of course it is used for more than email. You are making a useless point > since the issue of the actual workings of UUCP is not germane to this dis- > cussion. UUCP knows nothing about domains and addresses and probably never > will. All it knows about is paths. As far as mail is concerned, UUCP is just > a transport protocol, ignorant of the application layer's needs and intentions. > Well, yes and no. Note, first, that I didn't say anything about the actual workings of UUCP. I was talking about people using it to do a job. And when they set up little local uucp clusters, they very often run mail across it. Why? Well, mail is often more convenient than running uucp directly. Many users know how to use mail better than uucp, and they use what they know. This may not be the "best" from a guru's point of view, but they're not gurus. And as long as they're only passing source files across the links, mail works just fine. Granted, uuto would be better, but people tend to use the tools they know. Every Unix system I've ever seen has a library program called 'mail', and they all work the same. It's a nice little program, for what little it does. I can teach a novice user all about it in 5 minutes, and they can use it without surprises on a local uucp cluster (which regrettably requires a guru to hook up). It's still going to be a while before domainized mailers are so easy for a non-guru to use. The point I've been trying to make is that there are many good uses for temporary clusters of machines. Those who are developing new mailers can rail all they want against such uses of machines, but users aren't likely to listen. Currently, hooking up a cluster via uucp can be done in time measured in fractions of an hour per node. Consulting a name authority is several orders of magnitude slower, and in many cases would take longer than the lifetime of the cluster. This is quite prohibitive. > Mail is the entity that needs to know about domains and addresses (if you are > a domainist and if you aren't then this entire discussion is of no interest). Actually, even if I weren't, I'd still find it interesting. But I can assure you that most of the other users around here find it supremely boring; they leave newsgroups like comp.mail.headers to weirdos like me. -- John M Chambers Phone: 617/364-2000x7304 Email: ...{adelie,bu-cs,harvax,inmet,mcsbos,mit-eddie,mot[bos]}!cdx39!{jc,news,root,usenet,uucp} Smail: Codex Corporation; Mailstop C1-30; 20 Cabot Blvd; Mansfield MA 02048-1193 Clever-Saying: Uucp me out of here, Scotty; there's no AI on this node!