Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbatt!cwruecmp!hal!ncoast!allbery From: allbery@ncoast.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.os.minix Subject: Re: MINIX extensions Message-ID: <1976@ncoast.UUCP> Date: Sat, 31-Jan-87 00:11:18 EST Article-I.D.: ncoast.1976 Posted: Sat Jan 31 00:11:18 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 31-Jan-87 15:47:55 EST References: <252@hqda-ai.UUCP> <1953@ncoast.UUCP> <3166@rsch.WISC.EDU> Reply-To: allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon Allbery) Followup-To: comp.os.minix Organization: Cleveland Public Access UNIX, Cleveland, OH Lines: 95 As quoted from <3166@rsch.WISC.EDU> by mcvoy@rsch.WISC.EDU (Lawrence W. McVoy): +--------------- | In article <1953@ncoast.UUCP> allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon Allbery) writes: | >I dunno about you, but I intend to move my UNaXcess development environment | >to MINIX as soon as I get my hands on it and port some micro-variant of Emacs | >to it; at which point I'll be able to get cracking on the protocol module | >business and churn out programs to handle UUCP, Xmodem, Kermit, FidoNet, et | >cetera. | | I'm a little amused at all the *proposed* activity. Either you all have | jobs that encourage non-relevent hacking or you're going to forget your | social life (you have one, right?) or you're tootin' that horn a little | loud, methinks. Or maybe you're just orders of magnitude faster than | me (not too hard, I guess). +--------------- Most of it is 75% or more done. It's ``proposed'' because my development environment is a P/60 with hardware problems (crashes 3-5 times a day! )-: -- which is why I want to get MINIX up. After that, a revamp of UA-Conf, of UA-Mail aka IMS, of UA-Spool aka pqs, and some other projects which are based on existing code used in different ways (lifting the menus out of UA-Conf and creating a menu shell, for example). Show me a computer that will stay up long enough and I'll show you some interesting programs... +--------------- | First of all, try porting some random programs between SV and 4BSD. Rn, | uucp, dump/restore are all fun. You'll find it a less than trivial task. | And this you can do on your 16Mhz 68020 w/ ~1Gig of disk... Now, +--------------- I'm quite good at this, thank you. Just avoid the sockets -- I don't have sVr3 (yet). 12MHz 68020, 280MB disk, 3MB RAM. :-) +--------------- | try porting ls to minix. By the time you have pulled all the unused | or meaningless parts of ls out, you could have probably rewritten it from | scratch. Now try cp. Now try vi. Chuckle. Remember, you're working +--------------- Ls -- this is hard? And what parts are useless? (Aside from the modify vbs. create vs. access time, there being only the modify time in MINIX.) Cp -- trivial. Vi -- this is not a program, it's a kludge. Give me Emacs any day. +--------------- | Now, remember that AT&T code is not public domain (see below). Things like | the protocol that is used in UUCP are proprietary, not public domain. Any | port of UUCP that shows up in public domain is _extremely_ suspect. I | know of one port where the author claims to have done it all by looking | at logfiles. You might ask him how long it took (lauren@vortex.uucp). | AT&T can always decide to make an example to slow down theft. +--------------- I can write a UUCP by throwing random garbage at a uucico until I get a response, via trial-and-error. Normally, it'd be ``an unbearable trial and a colossal error'', but with no other choice I could do so and produce a wor- king product. Eh? +--------------- | >Anyway, if AT&T, as stuffy as they are, will allow you to post diffs to Sys5 | >utilities, Prentice-Hall and Mr. Tanenbaum should be at least as lenient, | ^^^ That's Dr. Tanenbaum. | >given the nature of MINIX. | | Geez. You really live with your head in the clouds. Post diffs? Chuckle. | | A) The diffs would be so huge, you might as well post the entire program. | | B) This is a cut-and-dried case of license violation. You would deserve | to lose it. | | Remember, AT&T is the business to make $money$. Not to support your | toys. Geez. +--------------- Introducing comp.bugs.sys5. Look it up sometime. Usenet is not dead yet as a result. No, diffs need not be huge; just recently a discussion of a stdio bug took place; a workaround for binary systems and a description of the problem in the source were posted. (Although I admit that the diffs are usually found in the BSD newsgroup -- but a lot of BSD Unix is AT&T code. Think about it.) Re: AT&T not supporting our ``toys'' (i.e. broken Unix System V): if they won't support it, they'll lose their money to mt. Xinu. AT&T isn't God. ++Brandon -- ++Brandon (Resident Elf @ ncoast.UUCP) ____ ______________ / \ / __ __ __ \ Brandon S. Allbery !ncoast!allbery ___ | /__> / \ / \ aXcess Co., Consulting ncoast!allbery@Case.CSNET / \ | | `--, `--, 6615 Center St. #A1-105 (...@relay.CS.NET) | | \__/ \__/ \__/ Mentor, OH 44060-4101 \____/ \______________/ +1 216 781 6201