Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!rutgers!husc6!necntc!ames!oliveb!sun!cmcmanis From: cmcmanis@sun.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Some thoughts Message-ID: <12696@sun.uucp> Date: Wed, 4-Feb-87 12:51:22 EST Article-I.D.: sun.12696 Posted: Wed Feb 4 12:51:22 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 7-Feb-87 07:47:10 EST References: <17128@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <380@pttesac.UUCP> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Mtn View, CA Lines: 76 Keywords: AmigaDOS, MINIX, UNIX, GNU Summary: The computer science Holy Grail - A Standard OS In article <380@pttesac.UUCP>, vanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) writes: > Geez, sure I'd like to see unix on my Amiga. I use unix at work > and AmigaDos at home. It would be great to have the same environment > in both places. These are two things, UNIX on the Amiga, and the "same environment." If you use Matt's shell you get the same environment without a lot of the baggage that the UNIX kernel carries along with it. I am all in favor of standard environments. > One day can we come up with a standard, whatever it may be that > will allow us to run *any* program? > The closest thing I know to a standard is BASIC. And that is the > only reason I like BASIC. I can count on it more than I can count > on anything else. I consider BASIC an application though. I'm > looking for some kind of an OS that is standard. EVERYBODY in the > world is trying to put *their* OS out and hopes that it will become > a standard. Operating Systems are always compromises. You can't standardize them because you can't standardize what you will do with a computer. You can standardize environments though, and libraries. Do you really want to "run" any program, or just be able to recompile any program and have it work on your machine? The former requires a hardware standard (the closest there is to that is an IBM PC yuck!) the latter requires a standard language and library. The only reason microcomputer BASIC's are as standard as they are, is that Microsoft wrote them or had them written. Since C as a language had such a tumultuous birth it will take it a while to become "standard" although ANSI is helping that effort considerably. > I'm getting old and tired (>40). If only I could get a standard > OS -- I wouldn't care so much if it was CPM 1.4 -- just don't keep > feeding me newer fancier operating systems that are different. I think we are really discussing user interfaces here. If you would like I can whip up a CP/M 1.4 compatible CLI for you :-) > Get me something basic that I can expand upon. As more and > more people us it, set more and more standards and add more and > more features -- just so long as the basics still work. Sort of like an ANSI standard verb set? Something that says "Typing delete at a computer console will delete files, this command will always accept wild cards that will be specifed by & and ^." But if it is customizable those CP/M users will have it set to ERA. > Start off with read(), write(), ... Apples, Oranges, and Grapefruit. The above are probably references to the C library routines that map to UNIX system calls. They are available with identical syntax on the Amiga (in Lattice's library at least) and the map to Read() and Write(). They have nothing to do with the OS at all, they are a programatic interface to a function (I/O). But they beg the question, are you asking for a) A Standard C language, and a standard Library b) A Standard user interface c) A Standard O/S Kernel > I think I'm just a lonely voice in the distance, but while > I've got it I'm going to voice it. > Marnix Good for you, as a programmer it is always interesting to hear what people want computers to evolve into. Personally, I would settle for a language that was free of restrictions like byte ordering and internal architecture. Modula 2 provides a lot of that and is one of the reasons I like it, when I need to get down and dirty with the machine I go back to C for its ease of expression. Now if we could figure out how to combine the two I would be all for it. -- --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.