Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mit-eddie!husc6!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!ubc-vision!fornax!chapman From: chapman@fornax.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: booting off a hard disk. (really: what's your problem JJMG?) Message-ID: <178@fornax.uucp> Date: Mon, 26-Jan-87 03:08:06 EST Article-I.D.: fornax.178 Posted: Mon Jan 26 03:08:06 1987 Date-Received: Tue, 27-Jan-87 19:19:44 EST References: <942@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu> <517@atari.UUcp> <176@fornax.uucp> <1066@husc6.UUCP> Organization: Computing Science Dept, SFU, Burnaby, B.C. Canada Lines: 103 > In article <176@fornax.uucp> chapman@fornax.uucp (John Chapman) writes: > ... {he quotes Mr. Pratt as implying that on his in-house machine he > ... can boot from HD} > > > >I assume this means Atari hard disks are now being shipped so that they will > >boot up directly without having to load a driver from floppy - if so the > >dealers around here (Vancouver) don't know about it (I went and talked to a > >couple after seeing the above replay from Allan Pratt) - they also seem to > >think the 40 folder limit has been solved by Atari. ??????? > > > Simply because Mr. Pratt may have an in-house Self-Booting hard disk does by > no means imply that hard disks are being shipped this way. If they were, I > have every reason to believe that we would have heard this -- and more > significantly, that even a dealer in Vancouver might have had a chance to > have heard this. It is I would strongly suggest far more likely that the > self-booting capability is purely an Atari-internal phenomenon at this point, > presumably because it is always best to be safe about these things before > releasing them! When Atari gets around to releasing this capability, I am > sure we will all hear about it, and I am also sure those of us who already > have hard disks will be able to use the new self-booting capabilities, also. > Yelling at Atari is not likely to get us this capability any sooner than > if we just wait for it. > > It just doesn't make sense to jump at every vague rumour and clamour for > something that is obviously going to make it to us as soon as it is ready. > This goes for the 40 folder limit, also: it has been made amply clear that > the limit will be fixed WHEN it gets fixed, and asking at every conceivable > chance if it is fixed yet is not going to get it ready any quicker! > > JJMG > > { seismo | rutgers | decvax!ihnp4 } !husc6!husc4!grunau Oh come on! You get up on the wrong side of the bed or what? First of all Mr. Pratt did not imply *internal* (to Atari) hard disks could boot; he stated in a reply to someone elses query that you could boot without a floppy. The implication was that they might have decided to start shipping them that way. So I did the reasonable thing - I went down and talked to a couple of dealers and they didn't know a thing about it and so I asked the original source to clarify (Mr. Pratt). Now just what the hell is wrong with that? Secondly, I was hardly "yelling". Thirdly, a statement from Allan Pratt is hardly a "vague rumour" The comment about forty folders was not particularily intended as a question (although I admit it may have looked like one) since I had just read his comments about the problem (and believe it or not my memory extends waaayyy back beyond last week) - it was intended more as a comment on that particular dealer's knowledge of his/Atari's product. Just what do you think this net is for if not the dissemination of information? I'd like to point out that Atari now has an idea for fixing the 40-folder problem (and I think 10 folders/1k is acceptable) that does not require a complete Gem rewrite. This solution is apparently the result of comments/questions made by someone else on the net in repsonse to answers by Atari to other questions about the problem. This is the net at it's best - competent people asking questions and generating information/solutions. We would be looking at a solution for a *long* time if that person hadn't asked those pesky questions! We know also know Atari has a boot in regular use internally - that is valuable information that we would not otherwise have had and you can now make educated guesses about the availability of it. People do like to be able to plan you know. Sometimes even being told that X will not happen for at least Y time, if ever, is worth knowing since it does let you make more informed decisions about development/purchases/etc. You obviously don't know much about the dealers here (based on your comment) so I'll give you an example (other than the 40 folder fix claim). I bought my ST in Ontario (from a dealer who seemed to take some trouble to keep informed of what Atari was doing) and then moved to Vancouver. When the ROMs finally came out I tried to get them locally at three stores with the following results: 1. ROMs? We haven't heard anything about that. 2. Yes we have them but only for people who bought their machine here - Atari will only sell us enough for our previous customers. 3. Sure we can sell you the ROMs but only if you also buy this really nifty CAD/CAM package for $250 that needs the RAM freed up by the ROMs. I finally got a friend in Ontario to go to the store where I got my machine explain the situation and buy the ROMs for me and then ship them to me here. The dealers here (that I have encountered) know very little. I have also had a dealer claim that there was no 40 folder limit - up until I pointed the warning out in the manual. Lastly: I and a lot of other people performed an act of faith in Atari and bought the ST when it first came out even though TOS was in ram, there was no third party software, the basic was buggy, the promised rf modulator was nixed etc. etc. It is the people who did this that got it off the ground. I hardly think it unreasonable to ask a question once in a while; Atari doesn't have to (and quite often doesn't) answer them if they don't want to do they?? john p.s. JJMG are you sure you shouldn't work for with that "don't ask we'll tell you when we feel like it you're just the CUSTOMER" approach?