Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!rutgers!seismo!elsie!imsvax!ted From: ted@imsvax.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.mac Subject: Apple/ the look and feel of toys Message-ID: <677@imsvax.UUCP> Date: Thu, 5-Feb-87 21:13:17 EST Article-I.D.: imsvax.677 Posted: Thu Feb 5 21:13:17 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 8-Feb-87 01:54:56 EST Organization: IMS Inc, Rockville MD Lines: 91 Xref: watmath comp.sys.ibm.pc:1454 comp.sys.mac:1185 Pierce T. Wetter of CalTech writes: >ha! ha! ha! >You were kidding, right? I mean no one would be stupid enough to >violently flame apple without knowing the facts, right? Like the >fact that Xerox at one time owned a large portion of apple stock >and was thinking of buying more? But they thought better of it? Makes sense to me, but hardly seems relevant to the topic of the article I posted. >Like the fact that some of the people who developed the original >Lisa interface at one time worked on the Xerox Parc project? Bad move on their part and I'm sure they regret it, but again irrelevant. >No one would be that much of a blazing idiot, right? >Mellowout. > Pierce Wetter right >P.S. If you are so hung up about finding someone to be angry >with why don't you yell at addison wesley. They're charging $600 >a copy for the mac version of TeX, a public domain program. No >site licencing either. Smooth guys real smooth. To be fair, it >isn't really AW's fault they're only distributing it, it the >programs authors who put on the limitations. The fact that the authors would attempt to charge Apple customers $600 for something which is nearly free to the entire rest of the world indicates that they have made a far more damning judgement of the Apple milieu, including the relative level of sophistication of the typical Apple CUSTOMER than I ever have. This isn't terribly insulting to ME, however. Relevant: Adj. Having a significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand. Dan Bricklin, the author of Visicalc who could conceivably claim a copyright on the look and feel of spreadsheets, claims: "The expansion of copyright protection is saying that the whole way we have developed software historically is no good..... Historically, the industry has been made on very small steps, improvements based on existing products." Picture Henry Ford having patented the automobile or the Wright brothers having patented the airplane. The one sure loser would have been the United States, which would have been limited to one brand of car or airplane exactly as Russians are now, while the rest of the world raced ahead with healthy competition. We could easily lose any lead we now enjoy in computers in such a manner. Xerox, which invented the 8010 look and feel in the first place has not been out there suing anyone and reputedly was ready to assist DRI in the Apple suit had it come to court. Xerox is a competent organization which obviously believes in making its living in the real world rather than in courtrooms. That Apple is no longer capable of following such a course has nothing to do with DRI or Atari or anyone else copying the "look and feel" of the 8010 interface, but much to do with another kind of a "look and feel" problem inherent to all Apple products: what I call the look and feel of toys. When Joe Businessman in New York City plunks down $3000 of his hard-earned cash for a small computer, he doesn't want to see plastic, 5" screens, toy keyboards, cutsie logos, machines with one floppy drive, or EXTERNAL floppy drives or anything like that. My first reaction to the Lisa was disbelief; I couldn't believe anyone would even try to sell anything which LOOKED like that in America. Maybe in Borneo or the Australian outback.... The Mac, unfortunately, doesn't qualify as evidence that they learned anything from the Lisa. By the way, InfoWorld reports that Adam Osbourn's PaperBack Software, and Mosaic Software are setting up legal defense funds to fight "look and feel" suits from Lotus over their respective spreadsheet offerings. This is a worthy cause, and anyone interested in the basic health of the industry might consider sending one or both of them a check for $10 or $20. We'd all be better off if this "look and feel" ogre were killed dead. Ted Holden, IMS