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From: brad@looking.UUCP
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: definitions of culture, really Brad, Brad, Brad....wake up
Message-ID: <745@looking.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 25-Feb-87 11:03:03 EST
Article-I.D.: looking.745
Posted: Wed Feb 25 11:03:03 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Feb-87 18:38:41 EST
References: <192@fornax.uucp> <744@looking.UUCP> <202@fornax.uucp>
Reply-To: brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton)
Distribution: can
Organization: Looking Glass Software Ltd. Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 82

In article <202@fornax.uucp> chapman@fornax.uucp (John Chapman) writes:
>and smell the coffee.
>> We have no need [for nukes], because we have all the nukes we need nearby.
>
>You mean it isn't because there is no one who's going to attack us?
>Let's face it the only real danger to Canada is the US/USSR conflict.
>Personally if I get nuked it's not going to make me feel better that 
>it had a stars and stripes on it.

Indeed, but it doesn't change the fact that Canadians perceive themselves
to be in an unusual situation, militarily.  We don't fear attack for
a very good reason.  Sorry I don't have the exact sources, but if my
memory serves me correctly there have been several polls in which large
numbers of Canadians have stated we don't need a military or nuclear force
because the Americans have no choice but to defend us.  This is the real
cause of Canada's so called 'non-military' cultural identity.
>
>> 
>> Most of the innovative health care is imported from our near neighbour.
>> (The techniques, not the actual practice)
>
>I seriously doubt you could prove that assertion - things *are* developed
>in the rest of the world you know (e.g. pacemakers by canada). However
>even if that were so the commetn is how that medical ability is put to
>use here. Only three provinces (BC, Alta, Ont) even charge for their
>health plans. Just like in England - not like in the US.
>
Do you make the assertion that the USA does *not* lead the world in health
care research and the development of new health care techniques?  They
do pay a lot for it, and one of those costs is a private health care system,
but *somebody* has to do it.  The public health care systems exist on the
backs of the private ones -- that's the point I was making.
>> >
>> >   Ditto for economic force. [we don't use it on other countries]
>> Like the calls for sanctions on South Africa, and our many tariffs.
>
>I fail to see how tariffs (or to a large extent even sanctions) can be
>considered forcing ourselves on another country.  If I refuse to buy
>software from your company am I forcing myself on you?  Even if the
>reason had nothing to do with it's quality or suitability?

We forbid (or hinder) free trade and exchange between Canadian residents
and foreigners.  This is as much a restriction on the foreigners as it is
on the Canadians.  These restrictions are put in place for various reasons,
including control of the Canadian economy, volleys in trade wars and control
of foreign economies.  You don't think our tariffs affect the US economy when
we are its largest trading partner.  You don't think quotas on Toyotas (that
rhymes!) apply force to Mr. Toyoda?  (The Japanese Jedi Master!)
>
>> >
>> >4. Canadians are not egotistical enough to think they know what is
>> >   "best" for the rest of the world.
>> This I doubt.  Some Canadians sure think they know (and should force) what
>> is "best" for the rest of Canada.  Given the authority they would surely
>> do the same to the world. 
>
>That is quite a big jump from our backyard to the rest of the world.  If 
>people set up rules for their family it doesn't mean they are going to
>go out into the street and try and enforce them on others.

It is quite a leap from Halifax to Vancouver, or even from Toronto to Montreal.
The point I'm making is that your whole definition of Canadian culture stems
from the idea that Canadians are more collectivist.  That's another way of
saying that we like to meddle in other's affairs.  Why should this stop at
the border if you feel it is right for those in Halifax to control those in
Vancouver?
>> >
Anyway, the main point still remains -- many of the examples of Canadian
National identity given on the net are results not just of Canada and its
peoples, but of the relationship between Canadians and the USA.

Even the definition 'Part of our identity is not knowing what our identity
is' stems from the association with the USA.  We have trouble distinguishing
our culture from theirs.

Even if you ask a fervent nationalist how he is a Canadian, the answers
all come back in ways he is different from an American.

Our relationship to the USA is one of the biggest parts of Canada and
Canadian life.
-- 
Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473