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From: chapman@fornax.uucp
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: education
Message-ID: <217@fornax.uucp>
Date: Mon, 2-Mar-87 15:30:47 EST
Article-I.D.: fornax.217
Posted: Mon Mar  2 15:30:47 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 3-Mar-87 03:51:31 EST
References: <213@fornax.uucp> <179@arcsun.UUCP>
Distribution: can
Organization: School of Computing Science, SFU, Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Lines: 81

> In article <213@fornax.uucp>, chapman@fornax.uucp (John Chapman) writes:
> > Every year thousands (tens of thousands?) of bright eyed little kids
>                  ^(hundreds of thousands)
> > go off to start in kindergarten.  They are by and large very inquisitive,
> > adventurous and enthusiastic. Twelve or thirteen years later they exit
> > the school system.  Only now they (with a few exceptions) actively
> > resist learning anything.  Learning and thinking have become a chore
> > to be avoided.
> > 
> If in fact kids do possess any adventurousness at all, it is by and large

Well let me get my rose coloured glasses on. There! As I remember it we
we pretty adventurous as kids - I certainly got enough lectures on the
topic (didn't take though :-) ).  Most of the young children I talk to
seem that way too - the most often used word seems to be "why".

> eliminated within 3 days of entering any organized institution, including
> day care. Within these settings kids rapidly become very set in their ways,

Maybe we should keep them out of over-organized settings then?

> and any deviation from the norm causes them mental anguish. (Picture 24
> kindergarten students whining "But Mrs. Soandso always reads the story AFTER
> the special person cleans the chalkboard"). Enthusiasm fades (in general) by
> grade 3. Inquisitiveness seems more a part of individual personality and
> stays fairly constant. (Source for these pronouncements: Denise Aitken,
> teacher).

Well I won't quarrel with her experience but I would like to point out
that she is relating her experiences in our current system - which
I am (at least partially) convinced produces this effect (lack of enthusiasm,
need to stick to established routines, etc.).
Is this inherent in children?  If not how can we stop doing this to them,
and if so how can we steer them away from it?
I would also like to emphasize that part of what bothers me is the attitude
children develop towards learning - they not only don't want to do it
themselves but they are suspicious (the be charitable) of those who do
enjoy it.

> > Why?  Would smaller class sizes help (I think so)? A different type of
> > setting?  Different training for teachers?
> > 
> In most cases, learning is a chore. If you already believe you are getting
> along fine, why bother to learn anything new? I resisted learning EMACS for
> ages because vi was a perfectly good editor. It is only when you can see
> a benefit from something that learning it becomes worthwhile. The task of
> convincing students that school programs are useful (and indeed making and
> keeping them useful) is a prime objective of education.

I agree, but we don't seem to be doing a very good job. Either
1. people are just like that and there is nothing we can do, or
2. ou school system is the wrong answer to the problem, or
3. something else.

Personally I believe 2 is the most correct; which is not to denigrate
the efforts of a lot of dedicated teachers working within the established
system.

> 
> > A lot of these people end up becoming a drain on society.
> Oh, I don't know. You and I seem to be doing fine. :-)
> 
> In my opinion, more concentration on continuing teacher education is the key.
> This will prevent the change from bright-eyed first-year teachers to old
> battle-axe burnouts who believe that society values them only as expensive
> baby-sitters.

It would certainly help (it would in most other professions as well). It
seems worth asking what it is the produces the battle-axe burnouts in the
first place though.

> 
> Rob Aitken
> { ...ubc-vision, ...alberta}!calgary!arcsun!rob
> Disclaimer: The Alberta Research Council does not pay me as a spokesman, so
>             they cannot claim anything I say as theirs. So there.

What would Denise change if she could do whatever she wanted with the
school system?

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