Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!oliveb!sun!gorodish!guy
From: guy@gorodish.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sources.wanted,comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: UUCP Port Turnaround (==> Unix Kernel hacks)
Message-ID: <13451@sun.uucp>
Date: Tue, 17-Feb-87 00:44:28 EST
Article-I.D.: sun.13451
Posted: Tue Feb 17 00:44:28 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 17-Feb-87 22:59:47 EST
References: <171@ndmath.UUCP> <4090@nsc.nsc.com> <166@piaget.UUCP>
Sender: news@sun.uucp
Reply-To: guy@sun.UUCP (Guy Harris)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View
Lines: 48
Xref: utgpu comp.sources.wanted:553 comp.unix.wizards:1010 comp.unix.questions:1070

>[Try: network code, yellow pages,

You lose, Larry, YP is NOT in the kernel.

> file servers, page management (yes, I meant that), tty drivers
>(you're right Guy, they shouldn't be there unless needed, see version 8),

So is the TTY driver, even in version 8.

>etc.  What's the old kernel up to these days, a meg and a half or so?]

gorodish$ size /vmunix
text	data	bss	dec	hex
445120	77784	120348	643252	9d0b4

Try again.  (This is a kernel with lots of bits under development,
too, so a lot of that stuff will go away eventually.)

>My guess, Guy, is that the person in question was referring to the
>the _commonly_ held belief that the Berkeley kernel is too large
>and seems to be growing without bounds.

There are lots of commonly held beliefs; the fact that a belief is
commonly held does not necessarily mean that it is true.

As for singling out the Berkeley kernel, I shall point out that I
just did a "size" on "/unix" on a 3B2 around here, and it was about
800KB.

>Sounds good, you say?  Sounds impossible, too?  Sounds possible, but slow?
>The last one has it.  This has already been done folks,

Yes, I knew about Mach long before your posting.

>So, Guy, the person you blasted was not so far off base, methinks.

The person in question specifically claimed that the "Berkeley
philosophy" was to shove everything into the kernel.  So no, he
really *was* far off base; think again.

>You don't want me to think that you, of all people, like the fact the kernel
>is huge and cumbersome, do you?  Or does playing wizard really mean that
>much to you?

I don't really *care* what you think, and no, playing wizard doesn't
really mean that much to me.  Does putting out a large and somewhat
incoherent bit of meandering mean that much to you?  More facts, less
blather, next time, please.