Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!NDSUVM1.BITNET!UD140469 From: UD140469@NDSUVM1.BITNET.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: r.e. Simons comments of 20 Feb '87... Message-ID: <8702220708.AA17612@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sat, 21-Feb-87 18:54:00 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8702220708.AA17612 Posted: Sat Feb 21 18:54:00 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 22-Feb-87 10:46:37 EST Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 63 For the most part, I'm in agreement with Simon... I can't comment on any possible effects the new Amigas might have on Atari (this was the first time I'd ever even heard of the A500--I'm kind of out in the computer booneys (sp?)) , but, having worked at a computer store that also developes Atari software, I've experienced first-hand the problems of vaporware and Atari developer support. In regards to vaporware, both Atari and Jack Tramiel have reputations for producing mounds of the stuff, and that can make it very hard to sell what you already have. In regards to developer support, oooohhhh, shudder. When my store ordered their developer pack, it came (about 4-6 weeks after we'd sent for it) in a box that was about a foot square, with the five or so disks at the bottom of the box (they weren't destroyed, thank goodness). There was a number given in there for developer's support--in the person of Richard Frick. When we called that number, about 50% of the time he wasn't around (he always seemed to be at a show someplace, or preparing for one, or on vacation). If he wasn't there, most of the time there was NO ONE ELSE to answer our questions. If he was there, about 40% of the time he could give us a helpful answer over the phone. Another 20% of the time he said he'd send us some sample code (which either never came, or came after we'd called and asked for it several times-- several WEEKS later). The rest of the time he'd not be able to give us an answer. Because of this terrible developers enviroment, our programers were basically unable to get anything done until OSS Pascal came in! In fact, the person who was still using the Developer's C often refered to the OSS Manual to try to figure out just what a routine was asking for! In contrast to this, let me relate an experience I had with the OLD Atari: A teacher friend of mine loaned me his copy of the old PILOT language to fool around with. For some reason, I wanted to do the equivalent of PEEKing and POKEing in that lang., but the manual didn't tell you how to. So, I just dug out my 800 number for Atari (gee, what's an Atari 800 number?!), called them up, and asked. The lady who answered said she'd send me some information and asked me for my name and address (didn't ask for any proof of ownership, or anything) and told me she'd get the info right off. Two *DAYS* later it came: a 50-60 page photocopied reference of technical pilot info and internal memos! I was floored. Ah, for the old days... As for the Atari PC, I don't know if I agree with Simon or not... It seems to me that nobody in the business world will even look at you if they don't see the name IBM or IBM clone--take for example the weekly magazine, Computer World--when they did a report on the recent CES show, they didn't even mention the Mega machines, just the PC... Oh well. ************************************************************** What I'd like Atari to do... (or Scott Udell's pipe dreams) Wouldn't it be great if Atari started an major tradein/upgrade policy? Take for instance Apple and the Apple II--I hear that you will be able to upgrade an Apple II+ to an Apple IIGS with a board upgrade that, while still expensive, isn't the price of a new GS. Say if you could send in your 1040 and enough $ to cover the extra cost (beyond cost of parts recoverable from the 1040) plus enough to make some profit, and Atari would send you back a Mega machine... They are already doing this on a small scale with 520s--you can send in your 520 along with $90 to get a motherboard refit (or is it a complete ly new machine?), that would include roms (even if your old unit didn't have them), the r/f modulator, and the newest revision of the motherboard. They can then scavenge the rest of the parts for re-use. Such a trade in policy would also stop any possible flood of way-underpriced used 520/1040's from hitting the market, there by hurting Atari's profits in the sales to completely new ST owners.... Hey... JT? ST? LT? Allan? Neil? You guys listening? Hey, knock knock... anybody in Atari paying attention to us? Comments, anybody? Scott Udell