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Subject:      Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #107
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Info-Atari16 Digest   Tuesday, March  3, 1987   Volume 87 : Issue 107

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                            Uniterm trivia
                     The Future of the ST (long)
                    Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
                   Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #97
                     Re: new spacewar (Ver. 2.0)
   Re: new moderated newsgroup(s) for Atari ST software distrbution
                   Re: Stereoscopic Display for ST
                      Re: 520ST Memory Upgrades
                     Re: Buying an Atari computer

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 27 Feb 87 22:25 AST
From:     <FXDDR%ALASKA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject:  Uniterm trivia
To:       info-atari16@su-score.arpa
X-Original-To:  arpa%"info-atari16@su-score.arpa", FXDDR

The addition of ymodem to uniterm has me transferring more files than ever...
I clocked the transfers using 1 kB xmodem blocks at 116.4 bytes per second on
a 120 cps connection -- 97% of capacity.  Very nice.  Here are some questions
and comments:
1) I'm using vvrb/vvsb for Vax ymodem (found on simtel20).  Using vvsb to send
   files to my ST, I find it wants an additional ACK when everything is
   finished.  When uniterm's transfer is complete, Vax waits around until
   I type ^F.  Does uniterm need to send one more ACK, or is vvsb at fault?
2) Follow this if you can.  Simon has been kind enough to send me copies of
   uniterm over bitnet.  I post them on our statewide computer network and
   on a local bbs.  A friend, Bob Purdy, downloads them from the network and
   uploads them to GEnie.  Now...Antic's catalog has been offering uniterm on
   one of their public domain collection disks.  It turns out that Antic used
   the GEnie version including documentation that had notes from Bob and me.
   So people who get that disk try to get in touch with me or Bob since we are
   clearly "uniterm wizards".  One man actually managed to get my office
   number from our computer network staff and called from Wisconsin to ask
   about uniterm.  I don't think long distance calls to me in Alaska are a
   good idea because the rates to call here are very high.  And, since Antic
   is distributing uniterm 1.6e, there are going to be a lot of questions.
   Would somebody living near Antic please gift them with a copy of 1.7a+docs?
3) One of the questions was how the VDI interface works on uniterm (the
   ALT V key).  Assuming GDOS is loaded from somewhere (DEGAS Elite), my
   understanding is that it is possible to use ALT V to write .gem metafiles
   that could be used with EasyDraw and other programs.  Trying to print gets
   the "unable to find driver" error.  I believe that is one of the major gripe
   about the current GDOS -- no Epson driver.  Is that correct or is there a
   way to treat an Epson-compatible printer as a workstation?
Maybe I'll try using Antic Online to suggest they update their version of
uniterm.

Don Rice
University of Alaska, Fairbanks   BITNET%"FXDDR@ALASKA"
CIS 72337,3417  //  KL7JIQ

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 87 16:55:10 GMT
From: cbatt!osu-eddie!osupyr!akw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Andrew K Weaver)
Subject: The Future of the ST (long)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

OK.  So we have seen the Amiga 2000.  (Or at least heard about it on the
net or read about it in Byte. :-)  Yes, it is quite an awesome machine.
Yes, it runs 100% (proportedly) IBM software and runs all Amiga software.
I guess according to some disgruntled engineers much of the add-on third-
party hardware is not compatible with the A1000.

But:  we are not here to deliberate on the Amiga (or at least I am not.)
What we have here is this:  many people who have purchased an ST seem to
at first been totally enthused with the machine and many (to the delight
of the rest of us) have gone out of there way to write some professional
quality PD software for the machine.  This is in addition to the same,
professional level (in most cases) commercial software that has been written
for the machine since its arrival in July of '85.

Now some (note I said *some*) of these same people are now disgruntled.
Why?  Because Atari is supposedly 'abandoning' the ST line like they 'did'
with the 8-bit line.

Why are these people so disgrunted?  "Lack of support!" "No upgrades!"
"40 folder limit!" etc.  True, there are a few problems with the ST.
I will give in to that.  But, can we look at some of the cold, hard facts
that there are in the world?

I.  Atari is a young, *small* company.

Even though the name 'Atari' has been used since Nolan Bushnell founded
the company back in the Dark Ages of Pong, the current 'Atari Corp' dates
back to July 3, 1984 when Mr. Jack Tramiel basically bought the rights,
inventory, and *debts* from Warner Communications.  He purged the company
of many (and in some cases inefficient) employees, services and buildings.
He took the ST project, already in research, and had it completed almost
a year later to the day after he bought the company.

Yes, in some cases the 'old' Atari company was easier to reach because of
800 numbers, etc. but even so this made the company much more inefficient,
having numerous divisions and agencies.  In fact, clearly the most idiotic
part of the 'old' Atari was being split into three divisions:  Home Enter-
tainment (2600, 5200, 7800), Home Computers (400, 800, XL) and Coin-op
games (etc.)  This made for many wonderful blunders (like the add-on
'computer' for the 2600 which was totally incompatible with the other home
computers), the 5200 (which was a 400/800 w/o keyboard and quite rearranged
internally.)

This system was inefficient; thus Mr. Tramiel purged it into computer hell.

OK, one might say, but now it has been going on three years since he bought
the company.  Shouldn't he be supporting the ST line to the hilt?  Yes, he
should.  But in many ways, there is one thing that the ST is not doing, at
least on this side of the Atlantic.

Generating (enough) capital, baby.  If Atari had enough ST and XE sales they
wouldn't have to go into the PC-clone business.  But they must not, so they
are going to.

2. The ST computers will be with us for a long time (or at least 8
   more years)

To the contrary of many reports, the XL/XEs are not dead.  (Read
comp.sys.atari.8bit lately?)  They were introduced back in 1977.  In fact,
here in Columbus the computer/game outlets probably sell more XE and 2600
software than ST and Amiga software combined.  Unless you haven't heard,
Atari sold 100,000 2600 units with *no* advertising.

Now the STs have been out since '85 and will most likely make it to '95
barring rain, sleet, EMP or stock market crash.  Right now there are more
word processing/business apps for the ST than the Mac relative to its
evolutionary scale or the Amiga at any point (no fair including IBM stuff
on the Amiga!)

There is already the Mac emulation for the ST as well as software MS-DOS
emulation (with hardware to follow presently.)  The blitter chip will
be available soon, the TT will be out in some form and the Megas as well.

Now, if you don't like your ST:  sell it!  There is sure to be someone
who is disgruntled with their present computer or someone who knows a
good deal when they see one.  Sell it if you don' like it.  I am not
saying don't flame Atari on the net; on the contrary, flame away. That
way at least Neil, Landon et. al. will hear something.  Call/write Atari.
Flame 'em on the net.  But *don't* put your ST in the closet or use it
as a doorstop.  If you feel the need to do these things, send your unit
postage due to the address below (and I will be *more* than happy to take
care of it. :-)

Ranting and raving...

    |                    Andy Weaver
      --+--                     akw@osupyr.UUCP
    |                       The Ohio State University
    | Proverbs 25.25            1774 College Rd Cols, OH 43210

------------------------------

Date:     Sat, 28 Feb 87  03:41:59 EST
From:     MCOHAN%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject:  Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To:       info-atari16@su-score.arpa

ritcv!rocksvax!rocksanne!sunybcs!leo@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU  (Leo Wilson) writes:

> I am about to tell my boss that a) I was foolish to trust Atari and the
> reputation of Jack Tramiel b) that the money we have invested in ST's has
> been thrown uselessly away and c) that if we are going to be able to do the
> job at hand we'll need to switch to IBM compatables.
Without saying what the job is, this doesn't make any sense.  Did you bother
to check for availablity of the software to do whatever job it is you are
doing before you bought ST's?  If you didn't that was your own fault-- one
can hardly blame Atari.  If it was available, then presumably it still is,
so what's the problem?  This flame makes no sense at all.

> However, I also think that Atari has orphaned a pretty good machine that coul
> have performed the task infinately better than an IBM type. Orphaned it much
> too soon, far before it needed to be... From what I've seen, Atari may even b
Orphaned???  I run an Atari dealer, and if it's been discontinued, I sure
have missed something!  Seriously, this also makes no sense.  Atari is
selling plenty of ST's.  The only thing I can think of is that you are
referring to the Mega-ST models.  These are fully compatible with the older
ST's, so even if Atari were to discontinue the 520 and 1040 (which I have
been specifically told is NOT going to happen), the ST series would NOT
be orphaned.  Besides, the current models are over a year and a half old,
would you have Atari never release any new models?  It seems to me that
the Mega-ST, as described, is quite a logical next step from the current
models.

As for upgrades, c'mon, people.  Atari has no obligation to replace your
520ST with a mega-ST.  This is the computer industry, a new model comes
out once a month.  Did IBM replace all those PC's with AT's?  Hardly.
When you buy a computer-- ANY computer-- it should be with the expectation
that something better will come out next week.  The computer industry
moves that quickly.   (unless you buy an IBM, in which case you KNOW
you are buying the worst on the market-- that's kind of the idea.)

Michael P. Cohan,  MCOHAN@UMass.BITNET   MIKECOHAN on Delphi

Organization:  The Computer Bug, Inc. 50 Main St. (rear) Amherst, MA 01002
Authorized Atari ST Sales and Service    (413) 253-7782

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 87 04:45:54 GMT
From: engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu  (Adam C. Engst)
Subject: Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #97
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I too would like a copy of spacewar as long as it runs in color.  So,
if you don't post it, please add me to the list as well.  Thanks
                                Adam

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 87 02:49:26 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: new spacewar (Ver. 2.0)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

in article <269@its63b.ed.ac.uk+, csan@its63b.ed.ac.uk (Andie) says:
+ In article <619@sask.UUCP+ long@sask.UUCP (Warren Long) writes:
++I am going to wait 10 days to gather responses,
+ Please post ... if not , could you email it ?

Again, please do NOT post them, comp.sources.atari.st has been
created (hurrah) for just this purpose. please email them to me and
i will see that they get posted and added to the online archives.

C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail:    Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP:    ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner      AT&T: (408) 986-9400

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 87 02:42:22 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: new moderated newsgroup(s) for Atari ST software distrbution
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

in article <863@ubc-cs.UUCP+, manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (Vincent Manis) says:
+ Can I make a radical suggestion about posting of programs? There should be
+ two acceptable forms: either source code (in any of a reasonably long list
+ of languages) or binaries+documentation? (Of course, source+documentation
+ is probably ok too!).
+
+ This business of "here's an interesting d.a.; try it" tends to make me skip
+ postings, not only here but in other newsgroups. Before I run something, I
+ want to know what it does, what effects it might have on my system, and what
+ limitations it might have.

I intend to test every program that gets submitted to me. (anyone
who wipes my hard disks dies !!!) and add documentation when ever it
is necessary. I consider it one of my duties as moderator.

C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail:    Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP:    ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner      AT&T: (408) 986-9400

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 87 05:31:40 GMT
From: tektronix!reed!omsi@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (OMSI)
Subject: Re: Stereoscopic Display for ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <8702260920.aa24966@ARDEC-3.ARDEC.ARPA> ekijak@ARDEC.ARPA ("Edmund S
 Kijak", IMD-IPAO) writes:
...
..
>MASS MARKET APPLICATIONS FOR LCS 3-D USING THE ATARI 1040ST
>Gary S. Yost, Director of Product Development and Marketing, Antic Publishing,
>Inc., San Francisco, California
>     Mr. Yost founded the software division of Antic Publishing, Inc. in 1985,
>and is the significant force behind the development of the STEREOTEK 3D displa
>system for Atari ST computers (in cooperation with Tektronix).  Before moving
 to
>Antic in 1983, he was a Research Fellow with the Atari Institiute for
>Educational Action Research.  In the past year, Mr. Yost has managed the
>development of the first Computer Aided Design system that stereoscopically
>renders 3D models in color (under $100), and the first stereoscopic molecular
>modeling package aimed at the secondary education market towards marketing
>high-performance 3D displays to over 150,000 Atari ST owners, and developing
>special 3D markets for value added resellers.

[small flame...]

Gee.. I know the guy who created the glasses for Tek for the ST, but does
anybody give him credit?  I'd like to be the first.
His name is Mark Kimball.  He first developed the hardware trying to use the
DMA port to control it but he ran into a few problems so he found a way to
"write" to the DMA port without having to modify the ST.  His first software
experimentation with it was drawing 3-d spheres in Forth on a mono monitor.
The nice thing about the monochrome on the ST is the refresh rate is about
72 Hz (as opposed to the usual 60 Hz) which made the images seem to flicker
less.  When Tek invested in color monitors, he picked up CAD 3-D and started
seeing if could make Tom Hudson's 3-D really 3-D.  Mark created a couple of
desk accessories that did the trick.  Mark started working with Tom in seeing
how the glasses could be worked into CAD 3-D.  So the resulting projects came
up with things like animations that instead of storing each frame in memory,
only the first frame is stored along with just the changes between frames so
it takes a LOT less space.  One of Tom's latest projects is ray tracing
(after he saw Zanth's "Shiny Bubbles") and his latest "masterpiece" combines
ray tracing, stereo glasses, and animation, and is called "Steely Boink".
This is a fantastic little 15x2 frame stereo animation that is a "room" that
is enclosed on each side with an 'animated' picture, with several 'mirrored'
spheres moving around reflecting everything.  This one you got to see to
believe! (I'm lucky because the store that I work at is one of Mark's
favorite hangouts).
Mark is now experimenting with adding more bit planes to the ST.  He mentioned
somthing like adding 4 more to low rez so you have 256 colors on the screen
at the same time.
I have just one flame against Antic.  Since they are the distibutor for the
StereoTek glasses they have done somthing rotten.  Even though they sell
the new CAD 3-D 2.0 and the StereoTek glasses to dealers, they are selling
the two together at a reduced rate but not selling the "sets" to dealers so
they can do the same.  So, the store I work at is now talking to LCS (Tek)
to buy the glasses directly to cut down the cost so CAD 3-D and the glasses
could be bundled together cheaper. (Things are looking promising)

- Russell Schwartz
  ...!tektronix!reed!omsi

P.S. Sorry for rambling on so long.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 87 15:31:04 GMT
From: cbatt!clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jafischer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
(Jonathan Fischer)
Subject: Re: 520ST Memory Upgrades
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

    I've been meaning to ask this for some while... can anyone out there
give me some info on upgrading a <<1 Meg>> 520 ST?  Specifically, if I want 2
Megs, would I have to rip out all those painstaking 250+ solder joints I got a
serious kink in the neck over?  And start again?  And somehow stay sane in the
process?  I know I've got an address somewhere in one of my usenet summary
files of a company offering a 2 Meg board (at least, I _think_ I've got that
address...), and I want to know if anyone has looked into putting this into a
520 that's already been upgraded.
    Reply to me, and I'll summarize and post.  Thanks in advance.

                - Jonathan Fischer     (jafischer@watrose)
        or:       watmath!watrose!jafischer
        or:       jafischer%watrose@waterloo.csnet
        or:      jafischer%watrose@waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 87 21:06:02 GMT
From: hadeishi@husc4.harvard.edu  (mitsuharu hadeishi)
Subject: Re: Buying an Atari computer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In re: Whether Commodore-Amiga is providing upgrades to the old users:

    The OLD Amiga blitter chips are being used in the new machines,
the A500 and the A2000, so there is no need for an upgrade.  There is
no upgrade path anyway since the new (unreleased) blitter chip is
rumored to have a 2 Mb address space and the old blitter is restricted
to the lower 512K of RAM (known as "CHIP RAM" to Amigoids.  This is
somewhat of a restriction only for frame-buffer animation, and it is
plenty of memory for most graphics applications and text applications at
640x400 resolution.  Note that 640x400 with 16 colors, the larget
Amiga resolution and color depth, takes up only 128K, and you can swap
in graphics from non-CHIP ram as long as you don't need blitter speed
to do it.)

    The new chip is rumored to be intended for high-end graphics
workstations in the 1024x780 or 1Kx1K market running a version of
UNIX (probably Sys V.2 or V.3, not BSD WAAAH) as well as Amiga Intuition
on at least a 14Mhz 68020.  It has the 2 Mb address space simply because
of the larger resolution.

    It is possible to add graphics boards to the Amiga series
to provide upgrades to resolution and/or blitter speed/address space,
but of course you would need a new, expensive high-resolution monitor
to go with it.  Such a trick was demoed at a show a few weeks ago,
apprently; Amiga Intuition supports different screen sizes and resolutions.
Most users won't need more than the 640x400 resolution made possible
by the introduction of the new $500 long-persistence color monitor available
from Commodore.

                -Mitsu

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------