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From: shebs@utah-cs.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: software engineering
Message-ID: <4414@utah-cs.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 26-Mar-87 13:17:24 EST
Article-I.D.: utah-cs.4414
Posted: Thu Mar 26 13:17:24 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 28-Mar-87 05:49:05 EST
References: <340@ndsuvax.UUCP> <141@tijc02.UUCP> <1285@rti-sel.UUCP>
Reply-To: shebs@utah-cs.UUCP (Stanley Shebs)
Organization: PASS Research Group
Lines: 59

In article <1285@rti-sel.UUCP> wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) writes:
>In article <141@tijc02.UUCP> djm408@tijc02.UUCP (David Marks         ) writes:
>
>>     It is my belief that computing has matured to the point that Software
>>Engineering should be split off from Computer Science as separate a discipline.
>>This is analogous to the split between chemistry and chemical engineering.
>
>Bravo! I couldn't agree more. In fact, I think the split is LONG
>OVERDUE. There are, I think, a few programs in software engineering 
>around. For example, there's the Wang Institute for Graduate Studies 
>in Tyngsboro, Mass. that offers a Master's degree in software 
>engineering. Anyone know of any other S.E. programs?
>
>                                  -- Bill Ingogly

I doubt anybody disagrees that there is a distinction, and that students
can follow either path, but there are some practical difficulties with the
split.

Most CS departments would have to be cut into two pieces.  There are only a
handful sufficiently large to withstand such a division.  What would happen
to a pure CS department of two, or an SE department of four?  They would
not be created in the first place, and the faculty either sent packing (bad
policy) or left in the new department (very uncomfortable).  Ultimately the
consequence is a CS department hopelessly isolated from their source of
things to think about, or an SE department out of touch with the latest
research.

Somebody else mentioned that "software design" should be taught instead of
"software engineering".  "Software engineering" has unfortunately become
associated with management of large program development, and that's one of
the weaknesses of the specialized SE degrees.  People come out of them
declaiming about how software *should* be done, but can't necessarily 
program their way out of a paper bag.  (If the MSE degree is so great, why
haven't they been producing ten times as much software as the unenlightened?
Surely MSE software should have taken the computer world by storm already!)
Mechanical engineers start by studying and building simple mechanisms long
before learning about space shuttle project management.  Interestingly,
design of mechanisms in ME is considered semi-magical, and only a few people
(mechackers?) really have a talent for it...

So here are my two impractical proposals:

1. Broaden the meaning of "software engineering" to be any part of applied
computer science.  This would cut across areas like graphics, operating
systems, AI, languages, and so on.  At the same time, recognize that some
people's work will not be easily classified into each category.

2. The largest departments should try a split on an experimental basis.
Each faculty member would have to decide which way to go.  Equipment and
maybe space should be shared at first, perhaps splitting up later.

							stan shebs
							shebs@cs.utah.edu

(Now that I've made the suggestions, it seems that the first is culturally
improbable, while the second is politically impossible.  But stranger things
have happened - computer science at Texas A&M used to be part of the
industrial engineering dept!)