Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!sdcsvax!hp-sdd!nick From: nick@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Nick Flor) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: A1000 -> A2000 expansion box? Message-ID: <762@hp-sdd.HP.COM> Date: Tue, 17-Mar-87 12:29:04 EST Article-I.D.: hp-sdd.762 Posted: Tue Mar 17 12:29:04 1987 Date-Received: Thu, 19-Mar-87 04:24:27 EST References: <17641@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <186@dcatla.UUCP> Reply-To: nick@hp-sdd.UUCP (Nick Flor) Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Lines: 133 In article <2822@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (No one lives forever.) Meyer) writes: >[This is a flame. You've been warned.] > >In article <760@hp-sdd.HP.COM> nick@hp-sdd.UUCP (Nick (I live forever) Flor) writes: >>Commodore is a great outfit. They can afford to subsidize. >>It looks like noone seems to care that they're losing the >>extra functionality of the Amiga 2000. > >What is this gibberish? I've still got the machine I paid for, and I >haven't spent any more money on it. There's no way on (or off) earth I First off, let me state that I'm assuming that the A2000 expansion slots are different from the zorro slots. Now, for my flame: Bail out now if you're going to be offended. >could be said to have "lost" anything! Therefore, there's no reason >for me to be upset about the A2000. > You're losing the ability to buy cheap hardware. >Likewise, since I haven't lost anything, there's no reason for anyone >to subsidize me, or to subsidize manufacturers of expansion boards. > ... Maybe some sharp manufacturer will figure out a >way to turn Zorro slots into A2000 slots with a cheap attachment, and >I can get either in one slot. Makes me feel sorry for all those A2000 >owners who won't be able to turn A2000 slots into zorro slots. > Mike, why in the world would anyone make hardware for the A1000 after the A2000 comes out. And even those that are stupid enough to do so will charge OUTRAGEOUSLY HIGH PRICES (low volume reasons etc.). Will you think before you spew. >Nick, wake up. There isn't any "extra functionality" in the A2000. >It's got more memory inside, but no software will notice that. Mike, get a life. I meant extra hardware functionality. The very idea that I meant extra software functionality is ABSURD. Notice, one of my pro's for subsidizing was that 3rd party hardware developers and commmodore will have a larger customer base to draw revenues from. >True, >you can hang extra hardware on an A2000. To get that, you have to buy >an expansion box for the A1000. So? You've _always_ had to buy an >expansion box for the A1000 to get any significant extra hardware on >it. Why does the introduction of a machine that has the slots inside >make you think you've been hurt, and need to be subsidized? > Get a life. I was waiting for the prices of expansion boxes to go DOWN. With the introduction of the A2000, producing A1000 boxes in low volume will keep the prices up. Also, think about this -- would you go into business producing boxes for a machine that has been discontinued? > >BTW, why weren't you screaming for "subsidized" or "free" 1.2 >enhancements? After all, software that expects you to have that won't > One can always get software updates from dealers (assuming commodore will let them give 'em out). Commodore doesn't have to ship updates out to everyone, just to central points. But hey, this isn't a software discussion, let's move on. >Of course, any subsidy has to come from _somewhere_. It ain't gonna >come from the stockholders, and it ain't gonna come from labor (I can >here the unions now: "You want us to take a 5% pay cut for >WHAT!?!?!"). It might come for the programming staff, but I bet they >wouldn't like it. Gee, it must come from selling the new machines. >Guess who's gonna wind up paying that? Why, the customers, of course! >That means they'll sell fewer machines, which means there won't be as >large a customer base, which means that there will be less >software/new hardware for the machine, which means you'll wind up with >software that isn't as good, or costs more, or both. You sure _that's_ >what you want to encourage? > You're looking at the short term solution. ( But what I really want to say is: People who don't take any kind of economics or business classes in college and then spew business diarrhea as if it was gospel really get my goat. ) But I wouldn't want to offend anyone. To summarize -- if the EXPECTED extra REVENUES generated from the LARGER customer base offsets the costs of subsidizing + other FC's, and furthermore, if this extra revenue creates profits greater than what is expected without subsidizing, then DO IT. For no other reason than it makes you money in the LONG RUN. No sh*t, the subsidy has to come from somewhere, but if the above holds true, then your subsidy will be paid off and you'll get a little extra. They don't necessarily have to take pay cuts to finance this subsidy. There are banks in this country. The customer doesn't necessarily have to pay more. Again, let me state that a thorough market analysis must be made. If the risk isn't worth it, then don't do it. >price over the A1000. Why were they wasting time adding marginal >features/misfeatures, instead of working on something that's as far >ahead of the A1000 as the A1000 was ahead of the rest of the world in >'85? > Because, you have to go with what makes you the most moeny. I think it's a smart move. It's a sneaky way of getting more of a market. Furthermore, if they're smart, they'll be able to slowly phase away IBM. Then we'll all be much happier. FLAME OFF Now look folks, I'm just looking for a solution that makes both sides happy. I know a lot of A1000 owners who aren't happy with the new A2000 for the reasons outlined above. Maybe this subsidizing idea was a bad idea, but noone has shown me why. Just a lot of sarcastic and not well thought out replies. I'll stop cluttering this net with my flames and use e-mail more. Nick -- + Disclaimer: The above opinions are my own, not necessarily my employers'. / Nick V. Flor / ..hplabs!hp-sdd!nick / Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division * "What's going down in this world, you got no idea. Believe me."-The Comedian - "Less Thunder with the Mouth, More Lightning with the Fists."