Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!clyde!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!hplabs!hao!noao!mcdsun!fnf From: fnf@mcdsun.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Expansion product woes Message-ID: <269@mcdsun.UUCP> Date: Mon, 23-Mar-87 13:40:36 EST Article-I.D.: mcdsun.269 Posted: Mon Mar 23 13:40:36 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Mar-87 05:45:19 EST Organization: Motorola Microcomputer Division, Tempe, Az. Lines: 120 At various times over the last few months, I have posted details of my problems in trying to get the products from different vendors of expansion hardware products for the Amiga 1000 to work simultaneously on my system. So far, I have tested the following pieces of hardware in various combinations: o Two different Amiga 1000's of late '85 early '86 vintage o CLtd's SCSI controller with Rodime 20Mb hard disk drive o ASDG Inc's Minirack-C with one/two 2Mb memory boards o ASDG Inc's Minirack-D with one/two 2Mb memory boards o Access Associate's Alegra 512K memory board First of all, remember that we are talking about one, or sometimes two, specific units from a given vendor. This is hardly a representative sample to start drawing conclusions about *ALL* hardware from any of the four vendors involved, C-A, CLtd, ASDG, or Access Associates. For all I know, replacing one of the three subsystems with a new one would completely cure all of my problems. Nevertheless, I have been working this problem long enough now, and talked to enough different hardware designers and other users with similar problems, that some reasonable trends and conclusions seem self evident. To recap some of my previous opinions and impressions about the products involved, as they relate to problems with the expansion architecture: o Amiga 1000 --- Expansion product designers have reported that the Amiga 1000 is very noisy internally and some parts used on early production models are run so close to specs that any variation due to more than a single expansion product is enough to turn some working Amiga 1000's into a non-working ones. Indications are that the Amiga 2000 is much better in this respect. o CLtd --- Marginally working hardware (my controller card is full of cuts and jumpers) and the quality of the metal case is about that of an internal company prototype (thin sheet metal, cable runs through the crack between top and bottom of the case). Buffers? What are those? o ASDG --- Highly professionally designed and manufactured hardware. Their boards buffer the signals in and out of the board, their boxes look virtually indestructible, and their new boxes buffer the signals in and out of the box to cut any loading effects to the absolute minimum possible. o Access Associates --- Quality comparable to ASDG. I only got to use the board briefly but I was impressed with its quality, as with ASDG's. Like ASDG, they have taken steps to reduce the loading and noise problems. Note the following: o All of the expansion products worked correctly when used by themselves on either Amiga 1000. One of the Amiga 1000's is totally "stock", the other has had the recommended PAL changes, has had the additional PAL ground modification, and has had the plastic 68000 replaced with a ceramic version. o Since only the CLtd controller passes the bus (a mixed blessing apparently), the only combination of CLtd, ASDG, or AA products that could be tried was CLtd+ASDG and CLtd+AA. With the unmodified Amiga 1000, neither of these configurations would even boot. With the modified Amiga 1000 the system would boot but not run reliably enough to be useful. o The controller + memory configuration was tried with two different ASDG units and one AA unit with identical results, so I don't believe the problem to be in the design of either the ASDG or AA product, or the result of a faulty unit. From these experiences I would recommend that: o If you plan to use a mix-and-match approach to expansion on your Amiga 1000 that you insist on trying the products with *your* machine *before* you lay out any cash. Or at least have an understanding that you can return any product that does not perform to your satisfaction (even if not "defective" by the vendor's standards). o Do not accept "solutions" that require you to hack at the guts of your machine unless you really enjoy this sort of puzzle solving. o If you need both expansion memory and a disk controller for the Amiga 1000, try to get everything from a single vendor. The PAL series from Byte-By-Byte looks like a possibility. ASDG should have their controller out soon also, and the design specs that I have read in their newsletter look impressive. o If you absolutely *must* have a disk controller *now* and at the lowest possible cost, the CLtd solution may be acceptable for you, but remember point numbers 1 and 2 above. The saving grace here is that you can toss the controller and just use the non-CLtd designed SCSI disk box with someone else's controller card (ASDG or C-A's A2000) when they become available. o If you plan to expand your Amiga but do not already have a large investment in existing products, wait for the A2000. On this system, every vendor will be competing on more "even ground", and those that choose to produce high quality products at a fair price will be rewarded rather than penalized by the market prices and finger pointing confusion. Disclaimer: Any flames or opinions expressed within are mine and mine alone. Neither my employer nor my Amiga knows anything about this text, generated by a random number generator hooked to my serial port... :-) Feel free to cross post this message to information services that I may not have access to. -Fred -- = Drug tests; just say *NO*! (Moto just announced new drug testing program) = = Fred Fish Motorola Computer Division, 3013 S 52nd St, Tempe, Az 85282 USA = = seismo!noao!mcdsun!fnf (602) 438-5976 =