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From: spencer@eris.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: C Language Postings (Re: Man Perfects The Amiga, Robotroff)
Message-ID: <3033@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 3-Apr-87 16:41:29 EST
Article-I.D.: jade.3033
Posted: Fri Apr  3 16:41:29 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 5-Apr-87 10:27:28 EST
Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: spencer@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Randy Spencer)
Distribution: world
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 97

In article <3488@cbosgd.ATT.COM> gwe@cbosgd.UUCP (Bill Thacker) writes:
>>	Anyway, I think you'll like this one.  Hope you haven't thrown away
>>your Manx 3.20a compiler yet.
>>					Schwab
>Curses! Foiled again !
>
>That's it. I'm coming out of the closet. No more hiding, pretending to be 
>something I'm not, trying to conform to society's norms. The big confession:
>
>I PROGRAM IN BASIC !       aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!
>
>Actually, I'm not exclusively BASIC. When the going gets tough, and I'm with
>a consenting flowchart, I'll use FORTRAN.

That must have been a tough thing to admidt, in this day and age.

>	Bill Thacker    	cbatt!cbosgd!gwe 

The jist of this posting was to say (please get me a copy of these things).
I would like to say that I was one of the four people that encouraged Leo to
post uuencoded stuff to the net, following Matt's example (this net is on a
first name basis).  I would like to point out, however, that this was to mean:

Post uuencoded executables to the net IN ADDITION TO THE SOURCE CODE!!!!!!!!!!

(had enough?  no?  ok here are some more)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DON'T POST THE EXECUTABLE INSTEAD OF THE SOURCE.

The reason that I say this is because I have noticed in the past something
interesting, and that is:

"You can create an executable from the source, but you can't create the source
from the executable"

OK, I know this might not be obvious at first,  but if you think about it I
think that you will see what I mean.:')

Now I don't want limit the number of PD programs posted, but I think that we
have got a hackers machine here, and this here net is the pulse of the community
that supports it.  As soon as we start posting executables all the time we end
up with a lazy group.  Everyone just downloads software and runs it and  is 
content.  Is that what we want?  I learned everything I know about this machine
by trying to compile other peoples code (and having to fix it so it would work).
I remember the first MicroEmacs I tried to compile, I couldn't get the concept
of working with more than one source file down for a week!  I have come a long
way since then, and it is all because of this net (everyone stand up and take
a bow!)(co-workers around the country are now wondering what you are doing:').

Now it is getting confusing how to compile programs under all these different
environments, and it is only going to get worse.  Right now we have the Lattice
environment, and then comes the Manx environment, and then the....  well, um...
Oh, yeah, compiling with those two environments and using matt.lib.  I knew 
there were three!

Ok, ok, there are lots of different programs that make up the individual 
environment, and not everyone has the same PD make.  That is why I suggested
to Leo that he post uuencoded executables.  Not everyone has both Lattice 
and Manx (at least not the new updated releases).  Also Matt releasing an 
updated version of a program as executable only is fine, we have the original
posting that allows us to look at the source, so we can see how he does things,
and we can TelNet to UCBvax and get the most up to date source (well, *I* can).
This makes the release of the executable make sense.  Also, the ASDGRRD
(the what????) was released with the idea of it being a shareware product
that the author was going to support.  That makes sense, how will they make
money on it if everybody has their own modified version of it?  Who will 
deserve the shareware fee.  But really now.  We have seen too many executable
only postings recently.  In the short run we will have GNU C on the Amiga
(what can I do to help?) and there will be no reason that everyone can't 
compile the source off the net.  Of course there are some things like Perry
and Eric's "DropCloth" that nobody would ever modify anyway since Perry is
a "Master" programmer ;')

Actually, that is a good example.  There was a question put to the net by
Leo saying:  "I can't get this program to replace the image on the backdrop
window the workbench opens, maybe someone else can".  Then ASDG comes in 
and says "We can".  And to prove it they release an executable that does,
but we all are still in the dark as to what they did right and Leo didn't.

Ok, so I am asking for something for nothing again.  But I think one of our
strengths on the Amiga is the preponderance of PD software WITH SOURCE! 
Have you ever looked at the ST's PD stuff?  Sort of limits the learning
curve on the ST (learning curve?:')

Sorry this message is so long, I just finished reading /kim's stuff, and it
got me in a verbose mood.  No, really I just got the previous message
rejected for lack of contribution over previous stuff.  This makes up for it.
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Randy Spencer      P.O. Box 4542   Berkeley  CA  94704        (415)284-4740 
                         I N F I N I T Y                 BBS: (415)283-5469
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But in no way            |||||||||||||||::::.. .. .
Officially representing  ||||||||||||:::::... ..    ....ucbvax!mica!spencer
                         s o f t w a r e          spencer@mica.berkeley.edu
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