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Date: Wed, 18-Mar-87 19:33:38 EST
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Posted: Wed Mar 18 19:33:38 1987
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   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown

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Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:07:41 -0200
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Date:         Wed 18 Mar 87 16:33:38 PST
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From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject:      Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #132
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>

Info-Atari16 Digest   Wednesday, March 18, 1987   Volume 87 : Issue 132

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                              Life Game
                     Hacking at Megamax C (query)
                       Modula 2 Library Modules
               Re: fixes for alcyon scanf and getchar?
                   Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #125
           Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
                           source vs binary
                     Re: News From Hannover Messe
                       Clock functions on boot

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 10:58:28 est
From: Eric Terrell <terrell@ohio-state.ARPA>
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa

Below is a new and improved (higher resolution) version of my
monolife "Game of Life" program for monochrome STs.  Included
is 68000 assembly languate source code, user's guide, and the
executable program.

If someone can relay this to the atari sources group, I would
appreciate it - that's where this posting belongs, but I have
not been successful in sending postings there.

-------------------- cut here --------------------

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end

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 87 06:44:20 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu  (braner)
Subject: Hacking at Megamax C (query)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

Before I invest time into it:  Has anybody found a way to minimize the
extra junk Megamax C adds to simple programs (about 1500 byte worth)?
I _guess_ that much of it can be dispensed with for programs that do NOT
use stdio, I/O redirection, etc...

Also: has anybody made an alternative printf/scanf that skips the FP stuff
(to make it smaller). Has anybody bought the Megamax library source code
(offered for $50)? Is it worth it?

These sorts of optimizations-by-the-users have been done on the DRI/Alcyon
compiler.  Why not for Megamax?

- Moshe Braner

PS: does anybody know whether the Megamax Resource Construction program
will work with OSS Personal Pascal?  Is the .RSC file format standard?
How would you get the Pascal .I file?  Is it easy to translate the C .h
file to the .I form?

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 87 02:02:15 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov  (Peter Santangeli)
Subject: Modula 2 Library Modules
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

    Hi Everybody!

    Has anyone ever had problems compiling library modules with TDI
modula 2? I am compiling a fairly large library module. The DEF file
creates a symbol file without a hitch. The MOD file however, compiles up
to the declaration pass, and then hangs. Dead computer.
On a related note, I just noticed that my VISA has been charged for the
TDI revision 3 upgrade I ordered a month or so ago. Does this mean that
they have started shipping? Has anyone recieved a copy yet??

                    Thanks,
                    Pete Santangeli
                    pete@utgpu

------------------------------

Date: 13 Mar 87 14:12:00 GMT
From: slavin@NYU-ACF4.ARPA  (Scott Slavin)
Subject: Re: fixes for alcyon scanf and getchar?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

>What were the fixes for scanf and getchar with the Alcyon
>compiler?

Yes what were they.  Can someone mail me them or better perhaps lets
create a new notes group called "gem.tos.alcyon.gdos.rumors.vapor.fixit"

Come on guys.  I bought the Developers Kit because I had (and kinda still
have) my faith in Atari.  I thought it worked (previous to buying it) because
Atari made it for their computer, but....  If I would have known that I had
to subscribe to a network (mainly Compuserve) to get the fixes I would have
never bought it.  And I would have thought that it was me (not being a
good programmer) that made the scanf and the getchar not work with the
Alycon compiler, if it where not for this newsgroup.

Atari, please support your products.


Scott Slavin

arpa:  slavin@nyu-acf4
bitnet: slavin@nyuacf7

------------------------------

Posted-From: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA
To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #125
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 13 Mar 87 16:20:05 -0800.
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 14:38:31 EST
From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA

I believe I have the source code (in Fortran) for an ancient but highly
entertaining version of Adventure lying about on a 9-track magtape somewhere.
If anybody is interested, and assuming nobody screams "Not Public Domain",
I could probably arrange to get it read into a host on the net and make it
available.  Assuming I can find and identify the magtape.

-John Sangster / jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 87 17:15:06 GMT
From: ritcv!rsm6306@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU  (Randy Marks)
Subject: Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <8703121649.AA23788@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> kdale@BBNCC-EUR.ARPA (Keith
 Dale) writes:
>I'm *really* angry right now, so please bear with any unprofessionalism you may
>see here.
>
>I  ordered  a  PC system from S & S Wholesalers, Inc. of Miami Beach, FL on Jan


Here I thought I was the only one being shafted by these people.
I ordered $150 of ST software from them.  When I placed the order, they said
 thesoftware that I wanted was *IN STOCK*  I asked 2 different times to make
 sure
there was no confusion.  They said since the software I wanted was in stock,
it would ship the same day.  It has been *WEEKS* since I ordered the software
and I still have not received it.  Their customer service people give me
a song and dance about their computers being down and delaying the order.

I strongly urge people to think twice before lifting the phone to call these
people to place an order.  There are reputable outfits out there that will
give you good prices and good service.  So far I have not gotten either
from S&S.

Has anybody done a survey of people on this newsgroup to find out how
different mail order outfits perform?  I think it is time we did such a
survey.  I will work up a form and send it out to the group next week,
compile the results and report to the group.

Randy Marks
rsm6306@ritcv.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 12:46:31 PST
From: <HOWESDW@wsuvm1.bitnet>
Reply-To: HOWESDW%WSUVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: source vs binary

I've been watching the ongoing discussions about the relative merits of
having source versus binary libraries with some interest, and I feel it's
time for me to toss in my two cents worth. First, I don't think that there
is anything inherently *wrong* in either type of library, but some of
the arguments that have been advanced for or against having binary/source
available (choose one) have gotten a little far afield. My own opinions
will be colored by my programming background, I've worked at our campus
computing center and am presently working as an independent micro
consultant. Like most people who work with machines for any length of
time, I've become familiar with a number of languages. These include
C, Pascal, FORTRAN, BASIC, Smalltalk, Prolog, Lisp, Icon and assembler
(8086 and 68000). This list isn't to sing my praises, but to illustrate
that I'm something of a language junky, and for good reasons (which I'll
get to in a minute).

Most of the comments that I've seen about the need for a binary
library can be summarized by "I don't have a compiler for language
X, so I wouldn't be able to use the code". This is a valid point, from
what I will term a "user" perspective (and there is nothing wrong with
that). If what you are interested in is getting a utility or a program
to solve a specific task, then binary is all you need.

However, if folks think about what types of requests for information get
posted to the net, they're generally of the form "I'm trying to write a
program which does X, but I can't get Y to work, any ideas?". THIS is where
having source available is invaluable and it doesn't matter *what* the
language is (this is where it's important to be a language junky). What
you get from source, regardless of the language, is the SOLUTION TO PROBLEMS.

You want to do real time animation using shape tables? I'm sure that
someone who has posted games has solved that one. Can't make the RS-232
port work? No problem. Want to get to the nitty-gritty of reading and
writing disk files using assembler? That's been done to. What you get
with source is the "programmers" perspective, you get to see how someone
solved the same problem you're having. Since there is generally more than
one way to solve any problem, and knowing most programmers inability to
leave well enough alone, I'm sure that people would improve on the general
level of code available, as long as they have the source. It's a lot harder
for this to happen if all that is available is the binary, and the author
of the program has to make all the bug fixes. Don't forget folks, these
guys are doing this on their own time and for free (that's why it's called
public domain), they don't have a lot of spare time (I'm sure Moshe or Simon
will nod their heads at that).

So, there it is (I guess it's a little more than two cents worth). Neither
binary or source is better or worse, but they do serve different purposes
(and maybe, even different audiences). Personally, I'm much more interested
in how people did something, than in what the program does (in most cases).
This makes me more interested in having source available, over binary
(if I had to make a choice).

Don Howes     HOWESDW@WSUVM1  (BITNET)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 87 19:04:10 GMT
From: shebs@utah-cs.arpa  (Stanley Shebs)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <655@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:

>  The difference is that the graphics operations that used to be performed
>in software will now be performed in hardware, with a resulting increase
>in speed.  This thing's _fast_.

Is the blitter going to be invisible if you don't want to use it, so for
instance Sublogic's Flight Simulator won't run 5 times faster (can you
say "Cessna F-16"? :-) :-) )

                            stan shebs

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 87 18:54:03 GMT
From: dalcs!silvert@seismo.css.gov  (Bill Silvert)
Subject: Clock functions on boot
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

I didn't get too much useful response to my query about clocks, so I
fiddled about on my own, and this is what I found out -- these results
were obtained with TDI/Modula-2 Vers. 2 (Have ordered Ver. 3 and am
waiting...) -- they MAY apply to ASM calls and C as well.

When the system is turned on, the date returned by the XBIOS call, which
I think accesses the keyboard clock, is $6000 (6000H or 0x6000,
depending on your language), and the time is $0000.  The system date
returned by the GEMDOS call is $0B74, or 85/11/20, which is presumably
what sets the default clock.  After booting, both clocks read the same.
If you reboot, the value in the clocks depends on whether you have a
control panel installed, etc.  I find that the keyboard clock tends to
come back with $0ABD, which is 85/5/29.  Anyway, I find th whole thing
really confusing.  Could someone clarify how these clocks are set and
reset, and what affects what?  This experimental approach to
documentation is a real pain.
--
Bill Silvert
Marine Ecology Laboratory, Dartmouth, NS, Canada
CDN or BITNET: silvert@cs.dal.cdn    -- UUCP: ..!{seismo|utai}!dalcs!silvert
ARPA: silvert%dalcs.uucp@seismo.CSS.GOV    -- CSNET:
 silvert%cs.dal.cdn@ubc.csnet

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End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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