Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!sri-spam!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!WISDOM.BITNET!MAILER-DAEMON From: MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-ID: <8703192219.AA06770@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 18-Mar-87 14:06:13 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8703192219.AA06770 Posted: Wed Mar 18 14:06:13 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 21-Mar-87 06:51:42 EST Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 440 ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:11:26 -0200 Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0820; Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:40:49 FIN Date: Wed 18 Mar 87 11:06:13 PST Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" From: Info-Atari16 Digest Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #131 To: Alen Goldberg Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 18, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 131 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Re: Batteries Included bought out. Re: News From Hannover Messe Re: Flaming of ATARI and the REflaming of myself Re: basic information query Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? Bad monitor, Bad service Lots of things... Re: RTS/CTS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Mar 87 22:53:39 GMT From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens) Subject: Re: Batteries Included bought out. To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <1753@druhi.UUCP>, lbl@druhi.UUCP (LocklearLB) says: > > In article <2424@dalcs.UUCP>, silvert@dalcs.UUCP writes: > In any case, if I am wrong and EA did buy BI, then EA would be pretty > dumb if they didn't keep distributing Tom's programs -- they certainly > made quite a bit of money for BI! > Electronic Arts did in fact just buy Batteries Included. NO word yet on what this means for us Atari owners. --alex @ Atari BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006 "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all." ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 22:51:21 GMT From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens) Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <409@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst) says: > > > I would like to > know exactly what the blitter chip will allow in terms of performance before > I would spend extra money money for one, although I would almost certainly > get the new ROMS. Alex, could you describe what the difference will be? The difference is that the graphics operations that used to be performed in software will now be performed in hardware, with a resulting increase in speed. This thing's _fast_. --alex @ Atari BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006 "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all." ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 22:24:32 GMT From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens) Subject: Re: Flaming of ATARI and the REflaming of myself To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <8703121153.AA09496@ingres.Berkeley.EDU>, hatcher@INGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Doug Merritt) says: > > It's bad karma to start religious wars. Also, the ST is a good enough > machine that it hurts more than helps for people to take cheap shots like > this rather than simply pointing out what you like about the ST. It sounds > petty. > But what are you talking about? I've never heard of anything like > this. Did you find a copy of the boot directions with a dumb typo > or something? Well, I'm not trying to start a religious war at all--just pointing out that there are problems with every machine. Anyway, here's the story. I was at Jerry Pournelle's house, and he had a piece of Amiga software that he wanted to show me, told me it looked really great. "Fine", says I, "let's see it.". Take out disc, and follow instructions on disc as to how to boot. No go. "Guru mediation error". Ok, fine. Get out the manual. Try _those_ booting instructions. (THey turn out to be slightly different). Again, no go. Ok, let's just try a standard Amiga boot, and then... Well, after about 20 minutes of this, we finally gave up. the silly thing simply would _not_ boot. So we left it alone with the disc in the drive, and went over to the ST. About 20 minutes after _that_, I happened to look back at the Amiga, and--you guessed it--the program had booted itself. I've had a couple more experiences like this, and they lead me to believe that it must be me--the Amiga and I just don't get along... --alex @ Atari BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006 "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all." ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 22:14:40 GMT From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens) Subject: Re: basic information query To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <17799@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, john@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (John Coker) says: > > I'm looking at getting an Atari system for use a graphics terminal at > home. It looks like a good ``basic'' system is the 1000 (number?). You mean the 1040 ST, 1 Meg memory, built in DSDD 3.5" drive. > - the most important, is there a good editor? Is there an emacs, > preferably something based on Stallman's emacs? I could even > survive with vi if necessary (but not the mouse/menus editors > I've seen running). There's a really nice version of MicroEMACS available, the version is up around 3.7 or 3.8. > - a good compiler--what is your recommendation for a C compiler > which is relatively bug-free and has at least the basic libraries > for someone used to writing C under UNIX? Is there any hope of > a debugger? I use the Alcyon Compiler from the Developer's kit, and like it. Other people like Mark Williams and Megamax. > - modem support. Can you use the st as a terminal? If so, how > much would modem support be? I already have a 2400 baud modem > (and regular terminal). There are several programs that emulate a VT-100, and the machine comes with a VT-52 emulator desk accessory free. > - shell programs. Is there anything which comes even close to > a UNIX shell? Preferably c-shell, but even the Bourne shell > would be better than the window-y thing I've seen used. Dave Beckemeyer's C-Shell is very good. > - up/down-loading--how can you transfer files from a Vax over a > modem line? Is there a kermit or something? There are several versions of kermit. > - how easy is it to write code which accesses all the bits on the > screen without going through the window system? Can I just write > a program which scribbles on the frame buffer? It's quite easy to get at the screen. --alex @ Atari BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006 "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all." ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 22:56:09 GMT From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens) Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says: > > > I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play > tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk > drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive. > (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do > to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat > to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage! > If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the drive is. Just change that, and... --alex @ Atari BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006 "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all." ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 23:40:05 GMT From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer) Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu > in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says: >> I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play >> tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk >> drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive. >> (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do >> to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat >> to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage! >> > If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the > Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the > drive is. Just change that, and... Sorry, Alex --- that doesn't help. ->ooof!<- [I just kicked his shins:] The Adaptec controller will indeed support more than one drive. The current AHDI.PRG hard disk driver does not support more than one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware.... -- -Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer The views expressed here do not not necessarily reflect those of Atari Corp. Segments are for worms. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 23:57:23 GMT From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel) Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <657@atari.UUCP>, leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) says: +--------------------------------------------------------- + + in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says: ++ ++ ++ I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play ++ tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk ++ drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive. ++ (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do ++ to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat ++ to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage! ++ + If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the + Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the + drive is. Just change that, and... it bloody well won't work. listen if you are going to speak as an atari representive you have a responsiblity to know what you're talking about.... atari does not do drive selection properly, instead the drive number is stored as the high order bit of each SCSI command, hence a special driver is needed before you can use two drives, not to mention the fact that the formatter etc. doesn't know about a second drive. If you want to see how it's done I suggest the current copy of STapplications, there's a good article by Tom Love on a two drive system. C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101 UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400 ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 19:15:48 GMT From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov (Peter Santangeli) Subject: Bad monitor, Bad service To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Hi everybody, Just thought I'd relate a little horror story I've been having with the service department of Atari here in Toronto. I've had my 1040 for about a year now, and have been mostly satisfied with the machine. cheap and powerfull. The computer itself seems to be pretty reliable. my sm124 however... My monitor developped a glitch a little while ago that takes the form of the image shifting left to right or right to left at random interval and random distances. The distance is usually less thatn 5 mm and the entire image usually shifts, though occasionally I also notice horizontal spikes and wave- ering. I took my monitor to Atari service here in Toronto, and they said it would take 2-3 days. 7 days later, they told me it was done. I went out to pick it up: all there was was a note:No problems, must be with computer. This seemed wierd to me as my color monitor has NEVER given me problems. Anyways, I took in the whole system. 5 days later. "couldn't find the problem". Damn! I thought. must be interferance. (though I had checked that). SO I set the stupid thing up at WORK. same problem. I took it home, and UNPLUGGED EVERY APPLIANCE AND ELECTRICAL DEVICE IN THE HOUSE. ***SAME PROBLEM***!!!! These guys are either BLIND or just plain aren't willing to spend the time to find the problem. Frankly, I am EXTREMELY PISSED OFF. I spent over $2000 on atari equipment. Yah, the software isn't great, I can live with that. I CAN'T LIVE WITH RUDE AND INEFFECTIVE SERVICE. So, I ask the net, has ANYBODY had the kind of monitor problems I have been having? I guess I am forced to open the damn thing up myself and fix it. Let's hope I don't electrocute myself (for atari Canada's sake!) Pete Santangeli pete@utgpu SNAIL : Pete Santangeli 56 Coldstream Ave Toronto, Ont Canada M5N 1X8 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 87 08:21:26 GMT From: ldp.dec.com!weaver@decwrl.dec.com (Dave, 297-7141, MRO2-4/E33) Subject: Lots of things... To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I had trouble trying to get this out the other night (11-Mar), here goes again. Re: INFO-ATARI postings First, would whoever is posting the INFO-ATARI stuff to the net please stop. I have no desire to clog my disk with duplicate information. If people want the INFO-ATARI mailings, let them subscribe. Also remember that not everyone is directly on the USENET, or for that matter on a UN*X system. I happen to reside on a VMS system and have much cruder access to the USENET postings. It is not easy for me to separate messages like you UN*X folks can. There are a lot of us who receive distribution through a gateway of one form or another. If USENET distribution of the INFO-ATARI postings is desired, then create "comp.sys.atari.st.info", but don't burden everyone with duplicate information, or waste network resources. Re: Twister David Small specifically states in the Start article that you will not see a performance improvement unless you turn off write verify. He has another program (REBOOTER) that takes care of the write-verify flag as well as making sure warm-restarts get translated to cold-restarts. Re: Blitter upgrades/new ROMS I personally feel that everyone should upgrade to a blitter. Unfortunately there are some memory upgrades that are going to interfere with blitter installation (any that cover the 68000 chip, I am told, will have problems, of which the Aerco upgrade is one). I have yet to upgrade my 520ST because I want to be compatable with the blitter when I do. Maybe someone from Atari could comment on what memory upgrades will be compatable. I would like to go to at least 2+meg Re: Atari gripes I am getting sick and tired of seeing people beat up on Neil Harris and Atari Co. about this and that. If you have a valid complaint, you can state the complaint in a professional and responsible manner, rather than acting like a 4 year old who wants to skip supper and eat desert! If some of the complainers are indeed 4 year olds, then your parents should revoke your USENET access (I wonder what the policies are regarding such access)! Give us all a break! Atari is a business, and they will make decisions based on the amount of business they will generate, and I am sure that they will give due consideration to their installed base! If that installed base acts like a bunch of screaming kids, then they may look for new customers. Give Atari constructive criticism and I am sure that they will listen carefully. But don't expect things to change overnight, businesses just don't work that way. Re: Squash IBM PC syndrome (and Amiga, MAC, etc...) Might I suggest that this is not a profitable use of time. The IBM PC has quite valid applications, and an Atari, Amiga, MAC, are just not everyone's cup of tea. People complain about ST's not being expandable, fine, you could have bought an IBM PC, why didn't you??? Probably because of its price (although clones are getting pretty cheap). If you really wanted expandability you should have bought an Amiga, or a PC/clone. When the PC/XT/AT are no longer viable computers, they will fall under their own weight. What is a profitable use of time is trying to get the software manufactures to port some of their IBM code to the Atari. You won't convince them to do it based on computer sales (at least not yet :-). Enough, I'll get off my Soapbox, -Dave ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 87 16:24:37 GMT From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom) Subject: Re: RTS/CTS To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <454@ll-xn.ARPA> singer@ll-xn.ARPA (Matthew R. Singer) writes: >You miss the point... The US Robotics HST modem is designed to use >CTS/RTS flow control. I guess I did miss the point. I _know_ the ST is supposed to support CTS/RTS. Has anyone else had trouble with it? As for my setup, XON/XOFF is all I need and it works fine. -Rich /// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\ \\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA /// ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ************************** -------