Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!clyde!cbatt!ucbvax!YALE.ARPA!LEICHTER-JERRY From: LEICHTER-JERRY@YALE.ARPA.UUCP Newsgroups: mod.computers.vax Subject: Re: key words... MAIL and DISK QUOTA UTILITY Message-ID: <8703052108.AA04566@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 5-Mar-87 16:09:11 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8703052108.AA04566 Posted: Thu Mar 5 16:09:11 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 7-Mar-87 01:44:34 EST Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: Distribution: world Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 71 Approved: info-vax@sri-kl.arpa RE: Mail While in mail and reading a mail message, occasionally the text at the top of the screen will scroll out of sight after pressing RETURN to read more of the message. MAIL has a rather simple-minded way of doing paging: It counts "lines", where a "line" is terminated by a CR/LF. (Actually, to be more accurate, it counts records.) If a line in a message is longer than can fit on one physical line on the terminal - 80 or 132 characters on most terminals, almost anything on a VAXStation - VMS or the terminal will wrap (depending on whether the VMS /WRAP characteristic is set, or the corresponding SETUP option on the terminal), inserting a newline where MAIL is unaware one exists. So, of course, MAIL's count is off and it writes too many lines. Short of the work-around you mention - artificially setting the page size a couple of lines smaller, leaving you with some extra space - all I can recom- mend is that you convince your correspondents not to put really long lines in mail messages. RE: Disk Quota Utility We are considering turning disk quotas on our user disks and I would like to get some info from you regarding the pros and cons of the utility such as I/O performance considerations, As far as I've been able to determine, the overhead is quite small. The only time the quota database has to be updated is when you actually allocate or free disk blocks, and hence are doing disk I/O anyway; the extra I/O to maintain the quota database is lost in the noise. Besides, the quota stuff is cached. how/when does overdraft work, If an RMS operation requires you to allocate additional disk blocks, and you are at your quota limit but have an overdraft available, the operation will fail with a special status value. If you re-try the operation, it will succeed. (I'm being vague here because the documentation is vague and I've never played with this enough to REALLY understand it. If, for example, you have two jobs running, and one runs into the quota limit and stops, will the other's next attempt to use the overdraft succeed without an error? I'm not sure. It's not even clear whether the ability to go into the overdraft region is inherent in the file system, or an RMS "added value".) how fast does the quota data base get updated? Essentially immediately. ... I do not understand the following statement in the System Manager's Reference Manual (V4.4): "If the rejected operation is an extension of a file opened for write, a user with overdraft can perform the operation by retrying it." Is this "retrying it" automatically handled by RMS for say a FORTRAN program that has a file opened for write? No, RMS will not retry the operation automatically, nor as far as I know will the FORTRAN I/O system; it will simply pass the error back to the calling program to deal with. Very few programs deal with this error intelligently. I believe BACKUP does. I've seen complaints that indicate that EDT does not - most annoying, as it means you can lose your edit. I'm not sure if TPU is any more clever. As always, if you can point me towards the proper manual(s) that actually answer these question that will be just fine. Unfortunately, the documentation of this whole area is pretty thin. Then again, so is the implementation. In my experience, the overdraft feature is pretty useless as currently implemented - it requires special-case handling by every program that wants to write files, and hardly any bother. -- Jerry -------