Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!clyde!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!CS.UCL.AC.UK!jon From: jon@CS.UCL.AC.UK.UUCP Newsgroups: mod.protocols.tcp-ip Subject: Re: network horror stories Message-ID: <8703251140.AA24968@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 25-Mar-87 06:41:07 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8703251140.AA24968 Posted: Wed Mar 25 06:41:07 1987 Date-Received: Fri, 27-Mar-87 00:53:12 EST References: <8703241852.AA20403@flash.bellcore.com> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 29 Approved: tcp-ip@sri-nic.arpa Exactly my point. TCP can be made to work fine. IP can be made to work fine, but currently has no (workable) mechanism for congestion control. If the internet is overengineered in terms of bandwidth, this works OK. If some congestion control mechanism is put in the gateways, it can be made to work better. Just fixing everyone's TCP does not fix things, because they can not make optimal use of the paths. X.25 networks give you a (one particular kind of) handle to control the hop by hop congestion control if you implement it right, whilst TP4/TCP (especially with selacks) buys you efficient end to end control. JANET happens to do this, which is why it works well. The resource reservation explicit in X.25 means you don't get hit by misbehaving end points - it's fair. A DTE that floods the DCE with CALL REQUEST packets just gets ignored by any reasonable DCE, and does not impinge on the network at all, after all X.25 is an interface spec more than a protocol. Asking people to certify TCPs before attaching to a research network like the internet is like asking your friend to certify that the car he's selling you cheap is going to run trouble free. We can't prove programs yet. jon