Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!topaz!christian
From: hays@apollo.uucp (John Hays)
Newsgroups: mod.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Was Paul a Mystic?
Message-ID: <9955@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9-Mar-87 01:15:25 EST
Article-I.D.: topaz.9955
Posted: Mon Mar  9 01:15:25 1987
Date-Received: Mon, 9-Mar-87 19:33:58 EST
Sender: hedrick@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 78
Approved: christian@topaz.UUCP

In article <9755@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> daveh@tekcrl.uucp writes:
>2Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago- whether in the
>	  the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God
>	  knows- such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
...
>  First, what is the third heaven?
>
>  These passages seem to describe an ecstatic state that is common to the
>  Mystics of many religions. Was Paul a Mystic?
>
>
>	Dave Hatcher

Question:  ... What is the third heaven?

In St. John 14:2, CHRIST says:
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if
it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you."

By this it is meant that the Father has prepared many mansions or kingdoms
for the resurrected bodies of His children.

In 1 Corinthians, Paul discusses the resurrection at great length, speaking
of the death which came about by the fall of Adam and the resurrection
made possible by the Atonement of Christ.  "For as in Adam all die, even
so in Christ shall all be made alive." - 1 COR 15:22  From this statement
we learn that resurrection is universal or in other words EVERY PERSON 
WHO HAS LIVED WILL BE RESURRECTED.  Paul continues in verse 23: "But every
man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterwards they that are
Christ's at his coming."

Paul through the next several verses lays out the ultimate victory over both
physical and spiritual death.  Asks questions of those who practiced baptism
for the dead yet questioned the reality of the resurrection.  Then describes
the state of bodies resurrected beginning in the 40th verse:

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestial: but the glory of
the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestial is another."

But this is only TWO, however in the next verse it becomes obvious he knew of
THREE:

"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another
glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."

And relates this to the resurrection in verse 42:

"So also is the resurrection of the dead..."

Now this all being the case we learn that:

1. Resurrection comes to ALL. (Not just those who know Christ)
2. The Father has more than one kingdom or mansion.
3. When men are resurrected they may be resurrected to one of 
   at least 3 glories or bodies.

It would be unreasonable to put the repentant believer with the sinner who
willfully rejects Christ, so we traditional speak of heaven and hell, but
from these passages it suggests that the Father has many rewards (i.e. 
mansions) and these have differing glories (one of the sun, one of the
moon, and one of the stars).  Perhaps at Christ's judgement of man he
rewards them according to their faith in him and the actions of their
lives resurrecting some to each of these glories and if they all be 
"Heaven's" then the 3rd heaven would be the highest which is where
Christ dwells with the Father, the one with the glory of the SUN, or
the Celestial.

This is the 3rd heaven which Paul speaks of.

In 2 Cor 12:1-5 Paul is bearing testimony of Christ and his own vision of
the 3rd Heaven and because of the glory of it he could neither determine
if he (Paul) was in the body or in the spirit nor speak of the things which
he saw because of the law of God's command.

In Him whom we serve,

John