Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!clyde!rutgers!husc6!uwvax!oddjob!hao!gaia!zhahai From: zhahai@gaia.UUCP Newsgroups: news.stargate Subject: Re: Restrictions on Stargate Message-ID: <301@gaia.UUCP> Date: Mon, 16-Mar-87 22:36:30 EST Article-I.D.: gaia.301 Posted: Mon Mar 16 22:36:30 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 18-Mar-87 02:11:51 EST References: <103@stargate.UUCP> Reply-To: zhahai@gaia.UUCP (Zhahai Stewart) Organization: Gaia Corp., Boulder, CO Lines: 100 Dear Stargate Team: It seems that you might reduce the divisiveness of your proposed copyrighting or restriction of formerly public material by stating just what processing you intend to add to the public material (as opposed to simply transmission) in order to assume copyright. If your "copyright on the compilation" concept is basically just like current moderated groups (some of which basically filter out redundancies, mispostings, and irrelevant material, put a list of titles on the front, and post as a digest) then I personally would feel "ripped off". I sometimes spend a significant time trying to explain some subject, for example the intricacies of the IBM EGA, with no compensation. I have greatly appreciated all of the other good will based labor that others have put into their postings. I sometimes spend time attempting to post a useful and reasonable response somewhat as a "payback" for the information I have received. This dynamic depends on mutual (though not universal) good will. I personally do not want to have the content and expression which I have created and freely given "usurped" by the mere duplication of my title (on someone else's title) at the front of a "digest". You might or might not succeed in legally defending such a ploy, but it is morally reprehensible. On the other hand, if someone wants to read my postings, along with those of others perhaps, digest and understand them, and write a book from the knowledge gained, I have no objections whatever. I would be pleased in most cases, and certainly would not contect their legal or moral right to copywrite their own creation based on information and ideas from me (and others). Where within this spectrum do you intend to play your game? Are you going to attempt a major rip-off of the intellectual labor of others, or are you really going to only restrict new material created explicitly created for or by Stargate? You have been too vague so far. This makes for confused responses by the "troops". If you will restrict yourself to the latter I will wish you well and see how I might support your efforts (within my limited resources). If you are going to try to "steal" my efforts by imposing commercial restrictions, then my check will be in the mail to the first group willing to take you to court. We may be friends or enemies - you have left things too vague. I suspect there are others of like mind. By the way, I do not accuse you of attempting to "get rich". I realize that you are attempting to pay for the neccessary costs of using this new technology rather than (just) personally enrich yourselves. But that makes little difference - I don't support moral theft even for the "good cause" of expanding the usage of expensive but fun technology. Yes, I realize that nothing is "free", and that this network exists through the generosity of many sites that pay the commercial costs of maintaining it. If you can offer better transmission services than the phone companies, or packet switchers, etc - I wish you the best of luck. But those folks don't try to assert ownership of my efforts, nor attach permanent restrictions on further redistribution. Part of what I am trying to get across is that you are free to distribute anything I post as long as you don't try to restrict anyone else from freely distributing it. If you cannot pay your bills without such a restriction, then I think your project, fun as it might be, should wait until the technology has matured and become sufficiently inexpensive to compete without intellectual theft. If you can survive by offering distribution which is cheaper than that offered by existing services which do not limit further distribution, than the time is ripe and you should go for it. The other part is that I do not want to be quoted in any "compilation" which you intend to copyright. You are free to use any ideas I release to the public domain, and create indices and commentaries which REFER to things I have posted on the net, and copyright those indices, etc as you see fit (as YOUR intellectual creations and properties). But if the main reason that somebody would care to read mod.whatever is the content and expression that I and other authors have created, rather than for the title list, then your attempt to restrict further distribution would be moral theft, whatever the legal shield your might erect and defend. I will take legal and practical steps to attempt to thwart same; in the end I would stop posting anything of substance if that were the only way to stop such theft. (I doubt it though; I suspect that legally a copyright with limitations on the ability of anyone else to quote within a restricted distribution compilation would be sufficient to defeat such connivery). Anyway, I just wanted to lay the cards on the table; I hope that all this is unneccessary and you will be "playing fair". I would be glad to be proven wrong about my fears and to become a "booster". But I think you would do well to reassure the net about your intentions if so - dark hints about your ability to copyright "compilations" of public domain works (legally true) only serve to suggest that you MAY be intending to use legal connivery to effectively make off with the good will based efforts of others . Good luck (I think). Let us know where you stand. ~z~ Sample: Copyright 1987 Zhahai Stewart; this article may not be included in any compilation or formulation which restricts further distribution; otherwise it may be freely distributed and quoted. Let's hope this will not be neccessary. -- Zhahai Stewart {hao | nbires}!gaia!zhahai