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From: kent@xanth.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Cheating (Is it clearly definable?)
Message-ID: <853@xanth.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 20-Apr-87 04:13:14 EST
Article-I.D.: xanth.853
Posted: Mon Apr 20 04:13:14 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 21-Apr-87 00:13:03 EST
References: <1368@uwmacc.UUCP> <6487@bu-cs.BU.EDU>
Reply-To: kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan)
Distribution: world
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk Va.
Lines: 51
Keywords: you can't get through the job interview if you don't know the subject
Summary: Cheaters DO punish tehmselves.

In article <3910@utai.UUCP> gh@ai.UUCP (Graeme Hirst) writes:
>In article <6567@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes:
>>Put it this way: If you didn't learn anything, but got the grade, you
>>probably cheated, yourself (hey, but thanks for the tuition money.)
>
>Nice, but too simple.  Every time one of these bozos goes out, proudly wearing
>their "approved" stamp from my university but screwing up their job because
>they aren't really qualified, the ones who suffer are my university's
>reputation and next year's graduates.  When I punish someone for cheating,
>the ones who benefit are all those who didn't cheat.

Well, I kind of like to run my classes (the few times I'm permitted to teach)
on the old honor theory.  Leave the room during tests, and wait in the hall
in case there are questions; that sort of stuff.

What I have seen over the last couple of years is a few real manipulators.
These folks would never do any coding in group projects, just run the project.
They always got max help from fellow students on any coding assignment,
never produced a piece of working code for a really tough assignment in 4
years of education.

I don't think it will be a surprise to anyone that these folks are all still
unemployed as programmers, years after graduation.  Job interviews for
programming jobs are usually done by experienced programmers, and a few well
chosen questions (I know, I've been the interviewer) can separate the chaff
in just a couple of minutes.  The ones who aren't caught that way and do get
jobs can't understand why other folks are promoted over them, get the bigger
bonuses and bigger raises.

Folks who organize their lives around cutting corners end up losing.  It is
a shame that a school's reputation might stand or fall on the performance of
one bad apple, but this is usually not the case.  Folks out in the real world
know the score, and won't condemn the school for the individual's failing.
Your reputation is based on how the average of your graduates does, more than
how the individual does.

Just a few musings early in the morning.

Kent.
--
The Contradictor	Member HUP (Happily Unemployed Programmers)  // Yet
								    // Another
Back at ODU to learn how to program better (after 25 years!)    \\ // Happy
								 \// Amigan!
UUCP  :  kent@xanth.UUCP   or    ...{sun,cbosgd,harvard}!xanth!kent
CSNET :  kent@odu.csnet    ARPA  :  kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu
Voice :  (804) 587-7760    USnail:  P.O. Box 1559, Norfolk, Va 23501-1559

Copyright 1987 Kent Paul Dolan.			How about if we keep the human
All Rights Reserved.  Author grants free	race around long enough to see
retransmission rights, recursively only.	a bit more of the universe?