Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!mcvax!ukc!its63b!bct From: bct@its63b.ed.ac.uk (B Tompsett) Newsgroups: comp.mail.misc Subject: Re: JANET troubles Message-ID: <369@its63b.ed.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 17-Apr-87 07:29:23 EDT Article-I.D.: its63b.369 Posted: Fri Apr 17 07:29:23 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 26-Apr-87 03:44:38 EDT References: <701@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> Reply-To: bct@ecsvax.ed.ac.uk (B Tompsett) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Edinburgh University, U.K. Lines: 78 Keywords: JANET, UK, gateways, help! Summary: Problems with all US-UK routes. In article <701@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> kagle@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu.UUCP (Jonathan C. Kagle) writes: > > For the past month or so, I have been trying to get in touch with a >friend at The University of St. Andrews, in Scotland. Unfortunately, the >mail is swallowed somewhere along the way there. [...] > [...] I can send mail to: >username%uk.ac.st-and.sava@ac.uk with no positive (reply) or negative (error >message) feedback from St. Andrews. I have tried to get through to the post- >master/mistress, but I have recieved no reply. > [...] > Could someone help me get through? Have I found a mailer bug? Should >I use another gateway? HELP! You are asking questions in a sensitive area. There has been some heated exchanges on this subject at this end; This reply is therefore worded somewhat carefully in the light of recent events. I have recently returned to the UK from the States and therefore have experienced the problems of the kind you describe from both ends. There are three main gateways into the UK, (and they are all described in the CACM article on Notable Networks), and as far as I know, each of them has to pay bi-directionally on transatlantic mail. Therefore each of your attempts to mail to St. Andrews was billed to the gateway, or St. Andrews. When the network in the UK was first set up funding was available and also the common carrier made its facilities available free/cheap. Now this has changed, and real money is paid to send and recieve mail/news and at the same time the Universities and other institutions are feeling the pinch of austerity measures caused by the paymasters wishing to spend their money elsewhere. As a result some sites decided not to subscribe to all the gateways. As the gateways themselves also had the same funding problems they had to make some policy decisions on what to do with mail arriving for a site that would no longer pay to receive its mail. To return the message would mean that the gateway would have to pay to handle the mail twice and recieve no re-imbursement; they therefore decided to just forward it to /dev/null. I am not claiming that this is what has happened with your mail, that depends on the current relationship between your recipient, his host site, and the gateway; I have no specific information in your case. I would like to offer advice to you on the best routing that would enable your message to get through, but current circumstances make that impossible in a public forum. It would be regarded as an attempt to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. Particularly when in this case there are not many exits from the theatre. I will however endeavor to mail you directly with some helpful advice, unless I am strongly advised not to do so by local gateway authorities. It should therefore be concluded that there is no reliable routing path from the US to the UK for unsolicited mail. If your mail is of particular importance your site should make arrangements to connect directly with any destination site in the UK using X.25 over IPSS. All that remains to be done is to agree on the protocol to be used. (In other words, should your site send packets in UK format, or should your recipient understand your sites protocol?) With regard to trying to contact the Postmaster, note that a recent survey of JANET sites showed that only 51% (330 of 642) of Postmasters at registered sites would respond to requests. Some sites do not even implement Postmaster despite RFC822 and a similar UK standard. I know for a fact that many of the systems at my site do not have an active Postmaster, and mail just builds up for Postmaster, root and the like. The administrators claim they have better things to do than handle silly mail problems (Their words). I hope this description of the current state of affairs helps put you in the picture, and also educates a wider audience at the same time. Disclaimers: This posting represents the views of the writer and do not form an official opinion of his employers, or the network administrators at this site or any other UK site or UK gateway. No critisism of the efforts of the network staff or administrators at any site or gateway is intended. They are doing a fine job in difficult circumstances. -- -- > Brian Tompsett. Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, > JCMB, The King's Buildings, Mayfield Road, EDINBURGH, EH9 3JZ, Scotland, U.K. > Telephone: +44 31 667 1081 x3332. > JANET: bct@uk.ac.ed.ecsvax ARPA: bct%ecsvax.ed.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk > USENET: bct@ecsvax.ed.ac.uk UUCP: ...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!ecsvax.ed.ac.uk!bct > BITNET: psuvax1!ecsvax.ed.ac.uk!bct or bct%ecsvax.ed.ac.uk@earn.rl.ac.uk