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From: trb@ima.UUCP (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
Subject: Re: Women's BOF in Phoenix?
Message-ID: <557@ima.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 24-Apr-87 13:13:28 EST
Article-I.D.: ima.557
Posted: Fri Apr 24 13:13:28 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 25-Apr-87 23:48:38 EST
References: <148@krebs.acc.virginia.edu> <466@unmvax.UNM.EDU> <1994@utah-gr.UUCP>
Reply-To: trb@ima.UUCP (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Distribution: na
Organization: Interactive Systems, Boston, MA
Lines: 50
Keywords: women BOF

>	I must admit, being male, I can fathom not alot of reason for
>	such a BOF. I know I am missing something though and you'll
>	tell me, right?

> I love self-referential postings...  This is a posting questioning the
> rationale for a BOF for women in Unix which itself constitutes an
> excellent recommendation for holding such a BOF.

Using Donn's logic above, I question the rationale for a USENIX BOF for
<your favorite under-represented minority here> in UNIX which itself
constitutes an excellent recommendation for holding such a BOF.  I
think not, therefore I am recommending a BOF.

I disagree with Donn, and I personally am not compelled to work to
organize a BOF for women in UNIX.  This is my personal opinion, and
therefore, of little value to the question of rationale.

Popular interest in the BOF is the rationale (or reason, as lee put it).
lee@unmvax's personal opinion is not sufficient reason for or against,
nor is the opinion of any other individual.

The issue of women in the workplace is popular, which means that people
want to talk about it.  If USENIX agrees that they (we) are willing to
support a BOF on that topic, then birds of that feather will be welcome
to participate.  

To some extent, I share the opinion voiced in lee's comment, and I
don't think that it means that I'm an enemy of women or of gentle
people in general.  As it stands, lee stated that he couldn't think of
one reason for a women in UNIX BOF, and the only response I've seen
(donn's) stated in a veiled way, that people like lee are why we need
this BOF.

I don't accept that as a good reason, and I don't think that lee posted
so that people would mock him or brush him off.  His request was
certainly worded respectfully enough and even if it wasn't, by forming
a BOF, you are volunteering to deal with the issues, right?  I hope
that one of the protagonists of the women in UNIX BOF posts an agenda
of issues in response to lee's question, or else I'll have little
respect for their actual interest in their cause.  It's a problem with
many activists that they'd rather not deal with the people whom they
perceive as their opponents.  You can't influence them by remote
control, like changing channels on a TV, you have to communicate with
the people you disagree with.

No, I don't think that comp.org.usenix is the proper forum for the
actual discussion of the issues apart from a posting of the agenda.
Let that poster move the discussion elsewhere if it's warranted.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Interactive   Boston, MA   +1 617 247 1155