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From: jkh@jade.UUCP
Newsgroups: mod.rec.guns
Subject: Re: handgun advice solicited
Message-ID: <2964@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 30-Mar-87 02:50:59 EST
Article-I.D.: jade.2964
Posted: Mon Mar 30 02:50:59 1987
Date-Received: Thu, 2-Apr-87 01:01:26 EST
Organization: U.C. Berkeley
Lines: 41
Approved: jkh@ucbjade
Author: crs@lanl.arpa (Charlie Sorsby)
Article: 3:38

> In-Reply-To: <2597@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
> 
> I disagree with the advice to use such small shot.  Even at close ranges
> #8 would most likely produce mayhem but not lethal force.  #4 buck is as
> large as I would go but I would think very hard before using anything
> smaller than BB.  A 12 gauge generally has muzzle energy comparable to
> a 30-06 but you can spread it too fine.  Very small shot dissipates all
> of its energy in barely 2-3 inches of penetration -- fine for birds, and
> less than half of what is needed, according to study, for a stopping-grade
> hit.  It is definitely not enough for someone high enough on drugs or
> adrenalin or psychosis to attack a man holding a shotgun.  The truth
> probably lies somewhere between #4 buck and BBs.
> 
Has anyone seen any real research on this subject?  I've read that shot
as small as #9 (bird) is appropriate in a close range defense situation
(I don't recall where -- American Rifleman maybe?) and I've seen all
manner of opinion here.  But has anyone done any actual experiments
(not on humans, I hope)?  Have any gelatin block experiments been
performed?  What about bone penetration?  How is bone simulated?

How much does the shot pattern have to spread before this lack of
penetration becomes a problem?

I will readily grant that a *single* number nine pellet has little
penetrating ability.  But what about 500 or so of them striking within
a diameter of, say, 4 to 6 inches?  Doesn't something like the succession
of single drops of water wearing away stone take place?

Maybe this summer I'll do some informal tests to determine pattern
diameter at close range.  I'd also be interested in experiments with
wall penetration at close range.  Has anyone tried anything like that?
I seem to recall an article on something like that but can't recall
where.  Interior walls should be easy to simulate with a couple of
layers of gypsum board separated by 2x4's.

If any of you have actually experimented with anything like this, how
about posting method & results.

Charlie
		crs@lambda.lanl.gov
		sorsby@hc.dspo.gov