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From: keithd@cadovax.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: PD Boot Disks
Message-ID: <1551@cadovax.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 19-May-87 20:07:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: cadovax.1551
Posted: Tue May 19 20:07:35 1987
Date-Received: Thu, 21-May-87 06:48:31 EDT
References: <504@myrias.UUCP> <1868@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> <1541@cadovax.UUCP> <1890@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>
Reply-To: keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle)
Organization: Contel Business Systems, Torrance, CA
Lines: 101
Keywords: Draco compiler shareware includes

In article <1890@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> carolyn@cbmvax.UUCP (Carolyn Scheppner CATS) writes:
>>Or on the other hand, if all this is not legal, has anyone out there seen
>>any PD boot-up software that will address these problems?
>
>Yes.  They supply a script that creates the bootable disk.
>
>>That's different than a boot disk designed for the dumb dumb user who
>>wouldn't even know how to execute a script or run the CLI.  We're talking
>>first-time Amiga users here.
>
>This is true.  As I said, I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for the efforts Carolyn, I know what it is like to deal with
corporate lawyers who really have no idea how all of this stuff
is being used.

To me, we've succeeded when one can legally:

1) Go into a store that sells Amigas,

2) Give a salesman a disk that says 'boot me' on it,

3) Leave the store with the knowledge that 2 weeks later, when
another salesman finds the disk in the 'demo' bin, he will easily
be able to figure it out enough to be able to boot it and run the
slideshow or other demo program.

Computer salesman can not be expected to be able to remember or figure
out how to get to the CLI, and do an 'install' or execute a script before
they can run a PD disk.

My local Federated has a whole bin of PD graphics demos they use in the
store to demo the machines.  It is clear that none of the salesmen
know how to setup a slideshow disk.  Come to find out, that a customer
has been helping them out to try to help out Amiga sales.  He comes in
periodically with bootable slideshow disks that he gives them for that
purpose.  I've heard this happens at other stores.  Apparently it is
technically illegal.  It's a good thing not too many people have been
thinking about that, as it could have meant fewer Amiga sales.

Now I suppose, as many PD libraries do, one could produce a PD disk
that has icons to start up the demo, without including any Workbench
files.  However, I almost NEVER use the Workbench.  All of the disks
I configure for myself with slides on them just use the good-ol
startup-sequence.  Since 'install' puts workbench data on a disk
that can't be deleted, as it is not a file, I would have to:

1) Format a new disk.
2) Copy the picture files and slideshow program to the disk
3) make an icon for the slideshow program
4) figure out how to configure the 'info' on the icon to
   invoke the slideshow with it's associated script files.
5) make sure the slideshow program WORKS from an icon.

I suppose this could be done with a script once I take the time
to figure it out for the first time, but there are about a
half dozen slideshow programs out there that work differently, and
would probably need special considerations.  And the one that
comes down the net next week will probably need new special
considerations.  And I suppose its possible some won't work correctly 
from the workbench anyway if they do printfs or something, I don't know.

Even then, if the in-store machine dosen't have an external drive,
it may add to the difficulty/confusion.

You know how much easier it is to simply do a 'copy' of the disk as
I use it?  When a friend comes over, and wants the latest images I've
collected, or if I feel like going over to Federated, and 'being a nice
guy' by giving them a new slideshow, which method do you think is likely I
will use?  If I want to run down to a local computer show or users group
meeting to show off the latest Amiga pictures, which method do you think 
I will use?  I respect Commodore's rights to their software, and understand 
how they may want to 'maintain control' over it.  However, in my mind, the 
present philosophy serves to either discourage such free distribution of
demo disks, and/or encourage the illegal distribution of such disks
due to the added effort required to produce a 'legal' demo. 

After all, none of that software will run on anything but Amiga
hardware.  And, everyone who buys an Amiga gets that software with
it, so should already have equivalent rights to it anyway.  From a
user's perspective, the only difference is ease of use.

And another side note, if you DELETE the Workbench system files, is that
good enough?  There are a variety of utilities that will undelete
files out there.  I've got it!  If someone writes a program that
boots up to a special program that undeletes all the workbench
files, runs 'install' on itself and then reboots, it can be then 
distributed and the first time it boots will reconstruct the workbench
environment as needed from 'deleted' files.  Hmmm...  Not really any
easier to set up than the 5 step approach described above though.
Isn't dependent on this weeks slideshow program characteristics,
but it probably makes 'deleting' files not legally good enough anyway.

So Carolyn, good luck in trying to get the powers that be to address
these issues.  I'd like more of us to be inspired to 'help the Amiga
sales' by passing around a few 'free' disks, instead of being discouraged
of that because we might be doing something illegal.

Keith Doyle
#  {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd
#  cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa  Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170