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Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!ll-xn!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!benoni
From: benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: Is Apollo a Unix box
Message-ID: <1268@ssc-vax.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 30-May-87 22:11:18 EDT
Article-I.D.: ssc-vax.1268
Posted: Sat May 30 22:11:18 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 2-Jun-87 01:53:19 EDT
References: <8705282057.AA03390@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> <486@cernvax.UUCP>
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Corp., Seattle WA
Lines: 34
Summary: Unix and obsolesence

In article <486@cernvax.UUCP>, lid@cernvax.UUCP (lid) writes:
> 
> I agree, Unix is obsolete, I'm managing here a 34 Apollo nodes split in two
> rings bridged toghether and I still have spare time. Everything just works fine
> (or almost fine) and I wouldn't really like to go to Unix, this wouldn't solve
> any of the problems we have now with workstations.
> 
> 	Achille Petrilli
Right!! Unix is obsolete because a a couple of sites run Aegis and they
like it.   Somehow this misses the larger point that the *industry* is
going to Unix.  I don't know if you have noticed but a lot of workstation
vendors are taking pains to put together Unix boxes.  Proprietary systems
such as Aegis are increasingly frowned on.  

I think Apollo has done somethings very nicely but on the larger issue
of Unix it has been not only very slow but very stubborn.  Sun seems to
have taken advantage of Apollo's lack of vision with regard to where the
industry is going.  What one of my Apollo instructors demeaningly called
a "rinky-dink company" is outselling Apollo precisely because Apollo's
*are* *not* Unix enough. (Of course there are some other excellent
reasons why Suns are outselling Apollos - like a low-end diskless, high
resolution monochrome workstation that runs for $4K.) 

I do not like ACLs, i am not convinced they have any value given that I
have to be compatible with Unix Vaxes, PC RTs, Masscomps, Suns, etc.  
Use of ACL system calls are bound to fail on other Unix systems.
Furthermore, the mapping between ACLs are Unix permissions are flawed.  
Another problem is that the acl_cache sometimes gets corrupted and you wind 
up with ownerships of '-1' or some such nonsense.  Of course there is another
kludge for that, some utilities that restore the system permission to 
the ACL setup.  

Despite some good ideas that may eventually find there way into Unix, 
Aegis is dead due to industry treads, it's proprietary nature and Unix.