Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mtune!codas!novavax!booboo!amir From: amir@booboo.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc Subject: Re: Who sells PC/VI?: Now MKS Toolkit Message-ID: <365@booboo.UUCP> Date: Tue, 2-Jun-87 12:54:57 EDT Article-I.D.: booboo.365 Posted: Tue Jun 2 12:54:57 1987 Date-Received: Thu, 4-Jun-87 05:54:27 EDT References: <42900004@uicsrd> <413@qiclab.UUCP> <2168@tekgvs.TEK.COM> <2692@blia.BLI.COM> Distribution: comp Organization: Gould CSD, Fort Lauderdale, FL Lines: 85 In article <2692@blia.BLI.COM>, heather@blia.BLI.COM (Heather Mackinnon) writes: > > > In article <2596@watdragon.UUCP>, absary@watdragon.UUCP (Al Sary) writes: > > > > The release 2.0 (or whatever came out in January) was a fiasco. I bought > > the package for "vi" and the *promissed* ksh. The vi had serious bugs that > > were mostly fixed in 2.0 but as I mentioned in another article, it added > > new ones. > > I use MKS's VI and also have used PC/VI and find MKS' to be faster and more > UNIX-like. I have version 2.1d of the toolkit. I have yet to find a bug > in version 2.1d and I spend considerable time editing 500+ source files. > No one would call me a vi novice, either. I've been using vi on UNIX > systems since 1980. No question about the completeness of vi. It has the "feel" of Unix vi and that's the reason I bought it. However, just because you didn't find any bugs it doesn't mean it didn't have any. Example: When I recieved the new version (2.0), I quickly started using it. I edited a 1000+ line program for a about few minutes adding about 20 lines. Then I went to the top line and opened a line (with shift-o). The machine crashed with divide-by-zero error. I was able to repeat this once but not anymore. Now, this was 2:00 in the morning and I had to figure out those 20 lines again. Not exactly a fun thing to do. I consider myself a heavy-weight vi user and have been able to get the vi to mess up a line that could only be fixed with a redraw. The problem is not as bad as the old version but it is still there. > > How could you send out the ksh in the state that it was in? I have *never* > > had a buggier piece of software in my life (public domain included)! It > > crashed the machine every four or five commands (either hangs or refusing > > to execute any commands). I finally lost so much work that had to revert > > back to command.com. > > The ksh does have some severe limitations, primarily in the history > substitution and alias expansion areas. I have yet to have the ksh > crash my AT or behave strangely. Who cares about the limitation. The ksh flatly didn't work. Simply typing "alias" would list the aliases and then hang the system. I wouldn't call this a limitation. It is an outright bug! > > And let me guess. You are going to charge for this release, right? > > I find this gentleman's tone offensive. For the record, I have no > connection with MKS other than as a satisfied customer. They're > selling a lot of software for the money and I would urge anyone who > wants the UNIX tools grep, vi, sed and so forth to purchase it. The > interactive shell is not nearly as useful as a real UNIX shell, > therefore I don't often use it. I do, however, use grep, sed, find, > vi, cat, more, ctags, mv, cp, rm, cd, nm, tee, tail, awk, join and > sort. For the tags alone, MKS's product is much more useful to me > than ol' PC/VI. I am sorry that you get offended so easily. You simply haven't got the extensive experience that I have with this product. You got the latest and geatest version of the package that "seems to work" better than what I have. I used the version 1.X and 2.0 and the company has made no attempts to notify my of any updates. The doc that I got with the 2.0 release clearly hinted at an update charge for future release of the product. How can they charge for something that never worked to begin with? > > Expecting a real shell to run on top of DOS for a minimal amount of money > is asking a lot. > Let me give you an example of the problem I had with version 2.0. I had a vi suspended in the background with lots of unsaved changes. When I tried to do an "fg", the shell refused to execute it and simple gave me the prompt back (it had done that on a number of other occasions). The only choice that I had was to reboot the machine and loose all of my changes. When you have deadlines to meet, this the last thing you need. I do not flame a product lightly. I have lost days of work due to bugs in this package. The latest version may be better but since the company did not have the courtesy to send me an update notice, I'll never know. Please note that I have no problems with the functionality in the package. It is by far the best Unix environment on the PC. Why can't they just spend some time fixing these bugs and estabilishing a better customer support service? -- Amir H. Majidimehr Gould Inc, Computer Systems Division {sun,pur-ee,brl-bmd}!gould!amir