Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!ll-xn!ames!amdahl!drivax!socha From: socha@drivax.UUCP (Henri J. Socha (x6251)) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.ibm.pc Subject: Re: Better Windows? (LONG) (& other topics) Message-ID: <1568@drivax.UUCP> Date: Thu, 14-May-87 19:08:31 EDT Article-I.D.: drivax.1568 Posted: Thu May 14 19:08:31 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 16-May-87 12:17:25 EDT References: <565@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <18881@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Reply-To: socha@drivax.UUCP (Henri J. Socha (x6251)) Distribution: world Organization: Digital Research, Monterey Lines: 121 Keywords: Windows User Interface Xref: mnetor comp.sys.amiga:4819 comp.sys.mac:3156 comp.sys.atari.st:3457 comp.sys.ibm.pc:4026 In article <18881@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> munson@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Ethan Munson) writes: >In article <565@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> chekmate@artemis.UUCP (Adam Kao) writes: >>I've been thinking for a long time about the ideal user interface on a >>graphics-intensive computer. The window and icon system popularized >>on the Mac seems to me a step in the right direction, but I still have >>reservations. Some of my major concerns: [Much deleted from the original article and the reply. I am only addressing two minor points.] >You would never consider using a real window interface on a basic >IBM PC because the chip/architecture just doesn't have the stuff to >support it (MS Windows, nowithstanding). You shouldn't worry about the >inefficiency of supporting a fancy graphic interface because these >machines are not intended for computationally intensive tasks. This, I greatly disagree with. GEM from DRI is a very fast environment. I am talking about GEM (and GEM applications such as GEM Draw Plus) on an XT. I feel that a person could use GEM Draw as they use MacDraw. Though in some respects it may not be as smooth to use as a Mac, it is as fast (or close enough) for it not to be an issue. To (ab:-)use one of many similar quotes: "GEM has a tremendous advantage in terms of speed," said John Meyers president of Ventura Software, "but Windows is important for the future." Therefore the issue becomes one of market presence and not hardware/software capability. As another (personal) example, at one point in time (before its release) the FASTest version of Multiplan existed on the slowest machine in the Datapoint family (the 1800/3800) which was slower than a PC/XT. BUT, a very fast Multiplan interpreter was written at Datapoint (faster than the one at Microsoft) and the Datapoint Multiplan was FAST. Once this was realized by MS, the problem was looked into. > I, for instance have yet to find a >reason to use the small icon display in the Mac Finder. I find "Small Icon" display extremely usefull. With a 20 Meg hard disk and many first level folders, I use small icons to display the root directory (if you will). I organize the top half of the disk window by non-modified subject area folders such as: System Folder, Utilities, Applications, Games, etc. The lower half contains my work folders: Projects, Letters, etc. Had I used large icons either more levels of folders would be necessary or windows would have to be scrolled all the time to see what was in them. And, in a command line system I am continuously executing DIR (or ls) to see what is there. Small Icons on a windowing system is the perfect solution to my needs. >>Adam >Ethan Munson **** WARNING: Commercials follow *** In case you didn't notice it, I must admit that I work for Digital Research, the originator of GEM (and the products to be mentioned below.) If feel that the points raised above (especially about the speed of GEM) are accurate. Having used (owning) a Macintosh Plus and having used GEM Draw Plus on a PC/XT I find that the difference in speed between these two machines is not an issue. In both cases you spend much of your time thinging what to do (how to make the drawing) relative to the time spent on how to do it. But, the drawing speeds are still comparable. (OK, its faster on the Mac but not enough to make it a major issue.) ** By the way, go to your local computer store and see GEM applications running ** on the PS/2 Model 50. <<>> Now, while I have your attention and while we are talking about preceived vs actual capabilities. Many industry #$@!s have stated that you can't do multitasking on a PC (or AT for that matter). But, DRI has had it available for years. Concurrent DOS XM (Expanded Memory) will run 4 applications on one PC at the same time. And two more to remote terminals! These can be windowed onto one screen or screen switched. These can be true PC-DOS applications or CP/M ones. Basically, only the problem of MS-DOS programmes writing directly to hardware (bypassing the bios) are an issue. For these, instead of running multi-tasked, they are suspended (like the Mac's Switcher). (Yes, TSRs like Sidekick don't work but just use another window!) AND, Concurrent DOS 386 should be released soon (if not already). FlexOS (Flexible Operating System) is a full real-time, multi-user, multi-tasking OS. Again, it does what Industry Figureheads said can not be done. For example, I have seen 3 copies of Lotus 1-2-3 and a graphics programme all running at the same time to the same screen on an Intel 286. They share machine cycles (execute in background) and by simple key sequences any one of the three screens can be brought up. Note that these screens are not redrawn. They have been generated once by the application even when it is in background and are only selected as needed. NOTE: this is not a special version of 1-2-3. It's the same one you bought but running through the DOS Front End of FlexOS 286. ******** Please excuse the ad. But the sad thing is that very few know about the capabilities of these DRI products. Just as they do not know about the Datapoint Personal Computers (never called that). The Datapoint 2200 was sold about one year before the Intel 8008 (Yes, 8 0 0 8) was even available. Machines, Business languages, Local Area Networks, second generation Operating Systems have been all done by Datapoint on a PC about five years before the PC marketplace did it. Ah well, such is life. -- UUCP:...!amdahl!drivax!socha WAT Iron'75 "Everything should be made as simple as possible but not simpler." A. Einstein